Posted By: maryyugoIn the US, obtaining money by lying is fraud. The intent in Steorn's case is obvious from the repeated and egregious examples of lying. I don't think claiming gross incompetence and negligence is going to help them. If Steorn had perp'd their schtick In the US, the FTC might step in on the prima facia case such as they did with Dennis Lee and Jeff Otto where the FTC shut down their Brown's gas/HHO cockamaymee scam for cars. Sniffex USA, on the other hand, was killed with the help of the FBI because they committed criminal stock fraud and manipulation on a public exchange (pink sheets OTC market).

My guess is that the later of Steorn's sales, the transactions involving millions of Euros, were most obviously under false pretenses and lies. That should be actionable both criminally and civilly. Now will disclaimers and disclosures in contracts help Steorn because contracts based on lies aren't valid. But whether Steorn's chicanery rises to the priority that interests law enforcement on the one hand and angry stockholders for the civil case is uncertain. But with 20 million Euros involved, I suspect someone will eventually bring some action against Mr. McCarthy that he won't be able to drink off in the pub.

You presume that the bull shit story Steorn have told in public is the pitch they have used with their investors. It's possible they did, but we do not know that as fact. If it is a tax dodge, they haven't stolen from investors, and they might even be completely within the tax laws. Steorn go out of their way to antagonize critics and wind up idiot believers. The more agitated that either critics or idiot believers get, the happier Steorn seem to be. That doesn't jive very well with a group who are concerned that their investors could wise up and call the Garda on them. If it's an investment scam maybe they believe they can bull shit their investors forever, and just like playing with fire. OTOH, if it's some tax dodge they have nothing to fear from their investors and are free to play with the heads of the general public.

You presume that the bull shit story Steorn have told in public is the pitch they have used with their investors.

If Steorn told the truth to investors, it's a different story. But that's unlikely. Unless the tax system in the UK is crazier than a schizophrenic strung out on coke, nobody would invest in such stupidity if they were told the truth about it. And consider this: when can we say Sean ever told the truth to anyone anywhere? Except maybe when he challenged people in his last demo by telling them either the scope trace proves overunity or fraud?

Posted By: maryyugo

You presume that the bull shit story Steorn have told in public is the pitch they have used with their investors.

If Steorn told the truth to investors, it's a different story. But that's unlikely. Unless the tax system in the UK is crazier than a schizophrenic strung out on coke, nobody would invest in such stupidity if they were told the truth about it. And consider this: when can we say Sean ever told the truth to anyone anywhere? Except maybe when he challenged people in his last demo by telling them either the scope trace proves overunity or fraud?

Steorn's investors have had years to witness the malodorous methane burps that occur every time Sean speaks. It is rather inconceivable that any are so stupid that after all that's happened and all this time believe Steorn have OU. If Steorn cheated them, then with all their antics they've really been twisting a stick in the wound. That wouldn't be very bright.

IIRC Sean said from the beginning not to believe him. Idiot whackados like double oh dimwit didn't pay attention. That's not so different than what happened with Al's machine that he can no longer speak of.

It seems that there is no unanimous agreement about if a "Crime" has been committed.

We can all recognize lies and such but our view seems to be that there is no consumer protection law in Ireland or the USA that would give protection to fools being parted with 419E.

Sad, very sad.

Posted By: YAFFPIt seems that there is no unanimous agreement about if a "Crime" has been committed.

We can all recognize lies and such but our view seems to be that there is no consumer protection law in Ireland or the USA that would give protection to fools being parted with 419E.

Yes there is - but so far Steorn have not accepted any payments of 419E, nor IMO will they accept payments in the future (precisely because there is protection for consumers). Protection for 'investors' is a different thing and unless you know exactly what terms the investment was made under, then you can't say whether it constitutes fraud or not.