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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2017 edited
     
    MY has recollected for me that it was the Papp engine that got Feynman involved in a death.
    I recall that someone was killed in McKubre's lab.

    Are there any other examples of physical injury or death from woo-scams that anyone can recollect?

    (I almost called this thread "Victims of Woo" but realised that would have opened the floodgates.)
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2017
     
    Ah, so it wasn't some casual bather being run down by Papp's 300 kt submarine?
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2017 edited
     
    For completeness, here's the Papp story from the other thread
    http://hoaxes.org/comments/papparticle2.html
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2017 edited
     
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      CommentAuthoroak
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2017 edited
     
    Mary might know whether Sniffex contributed to any physical injury:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniffex
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2017
     
    It certainly must have, at least indirectly. Good one!
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2017 edited
     
    Posted By: oakMary might know whether Sniffex contributed to any physical injury:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniffex
    There has been much conjecture and some fact about this. In brief, probably the worst confirmed incident was when soldiers in Thailand (IITC) examined a motor bike suspected of having an IED, they used a Sniffex, they pronounced it clean, more soldiers approached to check it out further and merchants went about their business nearby. When the soldiers touched the bike, it exploded killing three and wounding 6 (again IIRC). At one time there was a Youtube video showing the explosion and the bodies (again IIRC) but I believe it has been removed. It was very gory.

    Sniffex and similar scam dowsing rods were widely used in Iraq to check for IED's so it is certain that dozens if not hundreds of deaths and many more injuries were caused by this piece of stupid shit. Had the Iraqis used dogs or proper explosive detectors, many lives could have been saved. Much more on this if you can find it in the busy site:

    http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/ and this excellent BBC article http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29459896 (maybe start with that one)

    and the same scam is still being perpetrated or at least attempted ( http://www.sniffex-eu.com/ ), despite the British authorities having arrested one of the ringleaders of the Iraq sales. He was sentenced to 10 years as per the BBC article above.

    Sniffex in the US was forced out of business by the FBI and the SEC mostly for unauthorized stock pump and dump operations. The FBI did request original media of the video I took at an Anaheim Safety Convention ( http://sniffextest.blogspot.com/ ) but they would not tell me if or how they used it. I was not asked to testify.

    Sandia labs did definitive disassembly/examination of many of the devices and testing but in the case of Sniffex, they used my test in the above link, which was quite gratifying. Here is what they said (sorry about the weird formatting but that's how it copied):

    SniffEx® was selling company stock through PinkSheets, an exchange selling “penny stocks”.Sandia never had to test this device because other tests of the device occurred that were more than adequate toestablish the random chance performance of the device. Onetest was performed by an anonymous individual in a double-blind test of the SniffEx® at the Seventh Annual CaliforniaSafety and Security Conference in Anaheim, CA.Hemanaged to talk the president and vice president of thecompany into testing the device in the hall outside of wherethe conference was being held. The results of the test arewell presented at the review website [11]. This test clearly shows that a rigorous double-blind test need not becomplicated and the results are seldom in doubt.


    https://www.scribd.com/document/75518504/Unproven-Screening-Devices-Threaten-the-Lives-of-Police-and-Military

    As an interesting aside, Abdul Rahman Lomax (or however he spells it) dislikes my "black and white" study of Sniffex. He feels there is merit to dowsing rods to detect explosives however when I proposed that he test that theory by clearing a minefield with one, he demurred and said that the dowsing rod would be better than nothing but not good enough. actually what he wrote was more gobbledygookish than that.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2017
     
    It works or it doesn't. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
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    ... And in nuclear ICBMs, where "close" is quantified as Circular Error Probability.
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    Somehow I am not surprised that Abd believes in dowsing... but not enough to risk (his own) life testing it.
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    Posted By: AngusAnd here's the other one
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg13318030-600-fatal-explosion-closes-c


    Fixed the link.
  4.  
    Posted By: AngusIt works or it doesn't. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.


    Well, it could work a little. Marginally good for something.

    Of course Sniffex was a pure hoax. So not even marginal functionality expected.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2017
     
    We don't discuss medical woo here much. There must be many victims of medical nonsense, starting with people crippled by their chiropractors.
  5.  
    Posted By: AngusWe don't discuss medical woo here much. There must be many victims of medical nonsense, starting with people crippled by their chiropractors.


    Yes. Chiropractors, homeopaths, vaxxed, all the myriad cranks.

    I cant' even begin to fathom the scale of damage they have done.
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      CommentAuthorQuanten
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2017
     
    Posted By: alsetalokin... And in nuclear ICBMs, where "close" is quantified as Circular Error Probability.


    it is more of a general munition term, those calculations (and distributions depending on impact points) being appliable to pretty much everyhting launched or fired.
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      CommentAuthorgoatcheez
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2017
     
    Mizuno came within a couple of mm having his carotid artery severed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2005/mar/24/research.highereducation2
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2017
     
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2017
     
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2017
     
    Truth in advertising.
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2017
     
    Posted By: PathoskepticOf course Sniffex was a pure hoax. So not even marginal functionality expected.
    Abd's thing was that somehow, holding the thing bolsters confidence and enables mystically powerful human intuition to work. I don't discount intuition and that people can do remarkable things with their ordinary sensory apparatus and muscles/brain but it isn't reliable. And it probably doesn't include detecting IED's that are "well placed" and hidden.