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      CommentAuthorQuanten
    • CommentTime6 days ago edited
     
    Posted By: Duracell
    Posted By: pcstru
    Posted By: DuracellMost of the people arguing for legalisation do so on the basis that legalisation would result in fewer cases of all of the above.

    Not sure about most but, I'm sure it is not a popularity contest.

    Even if I accept what you say is absolutely true, how does treating the victims as criminals help them?
    I’m not advocating for that. I’m arguing against legalisation. I prefer the approach adopted in this country where the buying of sex is criminalised and pimping and running brothels etc. Bur the actual prostitutes are not persecuted further by being criminalised. They are not prosecuted and instead are (correctly IMHO) treated as victims rather than as criminals. In this country being a prostitute is not considered to be a crime. It is a crime to be a pimp or run a brothel or to buy sex from a prostitute.


    Country criminilizing buyer, not only do not lower prostitution (the Sswedish model shows it, at least for the number I got it shows increase - and decrease - parallel to conjuncture and not the law change), but not only it potentially add punishment which are not in line with the crime, but also if it REALLY worked , it would remove the possibility of prostitution to men & women seeing it as their last (or first) resort.

    Personally I am of the "if it is your body and you are of consenting age, go huff drugs, smoke, drink alcohol, have sex for or without money as you wish" model.

    ETA Oh and crimilizing an harmless activity (a consenting person selling sex to another) to try to fight an unrelated activity (trafficking) is IMO the wrong way.
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      CommentAuthorDuracell
    • CommentTime6 days ago edited
     
    Posted By: QuantenPersonally I am of the "if it is your body and you are of consenting age, go huff drugs, smoke, drink alcohol, have sex for or without money as you wish" model.


    If some adults wanted to be horribly tortured to death by sadists then should that be facilitated on the basis that it is their bodies and they are of consenting age?

    Moreover, how could you possibly determine whether or not having sex for money would be someone’s genuine wish or actually something they would prefer not to do but feel that they have, for whatever reasons, no choice but to do? How could you possibly tell if someone was being forced into prostitution by a violent and abusive spouse, other family member, drug dealer or loan shark? Would somebody who would technically be there by choice but really only resorting to prostitution in desperatarion in order to try to raise money they need to avoid violent consequences really be there by choice? Would drug addicts, alcoholics and gambling addicts resorting to prostitution in order to feed their addictions really be there by choice? Would other poor, marginalised and vulnerable people with low self esteem and and mental health issues really be there by choice or as a consequence of being sexually exploited both by the people profiting from their exploitation and those taking advantage of it to satisfy their own sexual appetites?

    Neo-feudalists everywhere would welcome the ability to be able to legally compel their minions to satisfy them sexually. How much worse would it be like for young women to work for captains of industry such as Harvey Weinstein and Donald Trump in a world where prostitution was legalised, normalised and sufficiently socially acceptable for their bosses to be able to legally add clauses to their contracts of employment that required their employees to indulge their sexual appetites as and when required?

    All of the counter arguments being made today against the abolition of sexual slavery (prostitution) were also made in the days before slavery was abolished. The same arguments were put forth for regulation in order to try to mitigate against the worst excesses of slavery as feasible and pragmatic harm reduction measures instead of outright abolition, which it was argued would never succeed. Yet, slavery was successfully abolished back then despite these objections. Sexual slavery can also be abolished today if we refuse to accept it.
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      CommentAuthorDuracell
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    For when he plays the inevitable “I’m the real victim here because I am a sex addict, and if anything, these ruthless, driven and ambitious starlets took advantage of and exploited me” card: Is Harvey Weinstein a sex addict?

    Many people do believe sex addiction is real and serious problem, while others dismiss it outright. Despite it being a widely-used term, it doesn’t feature in either the DSM-V or ICD-10, the two main sources for officially-recognised psychiatric disorders the world over.

    ...

    Those who claim to be sex addicts are usually a) men, and b) show behaviours more in-keeping with paraphilic disorders and the like. These aren’t great, but they’re not addiction.

    Cynics argue that a rich, powerful man caught up in sex scandal claiming to be a sex addict is just a cop-out. Addiction isn’t nice. It doesn’t affect everyone the same way, but it’s usually pretty debilitating. It strips away most, or all, of your dignity, your ability to think rationally, your pre-existing priorities. A genuine sex addict would be in thrall to their addiction, and wouldn’t be overly choosy about how they satisfy it. While it’s impossible to say for certain without knowing all of the facts, it’s hard to argue against the cynics.
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTime5 days ago edited
     
    There's a hell of a lot of difference between a street person addicted to methamphetamine and billionaire with power over people's lives getting his jollies because he knows he can get away with it--and that he can afford to silence his victims.

    Put old Harvey in a maximum-security prison for a year and then check in on his "addiction".
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      CommentAuthorQuanten
    • CommentTime5 days ago edited
     
    Posted By: Duracell
    Posted By: QuantenPersonally I am of the "if it is your body and you are of consenting age, go huff drugs, smoke, drink alcohol, have sex for or without money as you wish" model.


    If some adults wanted to be horribly tortured to death by sadists then should that be facilitated on the basis that it is their bodies and they are of consenting age?


    You are using the same slippery slope argument that people used for years to stop gay mariage "what next would you allow to marry horse or have sex with children?". In fact if you don't go into the "marry your horse" extrem you would realize that we ALREADY allow a non damaging/non harming form of that, or are you going to disallow SM play too ?

    That you can imagine an activity which is illegal (murder and torture) and pretend one can do onto another as a slippery slope from prostitution shows that you have NO real argument agaisnt prostitution.

    Almost all your arguments are indirect one. Slippery slope, unrelated trafficking which would be illegal anyway, Just sayin'.

    The basic truth is that sex is legal between consenting adult, selling sex should also be legal, and it ain't the damn government business to regulate that. In fact it should redict all resource against prostitution, and pour them in against the real sick stuff: trafficking and underage sex worker.
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      CommentAuthorDuracell
    • CommentTime5 days ago edited
     
    Posted By: Quanten
    Posted By: Duracell
    Posted By: QuantenPersonally I am of the "if it is your body and you are of consenting age, go huff drugs, smoke, drink alcohol, have sex for or without money as you wish" model.


    If some adults wanted to be horribly tortured to death by sadists then should that be facilitated on the basis that it is their bodies and they are of consenting age?


    You are using the same slippery slope argument that people used for years to stop gay mariage "what next would you allow to marry horse or have sex with children?". In fact if you don't go into the "marry your horse" extrem you would realize that we ALREADY allow a non damaging/non harming form of that, or are you going to disallow SM play too ?

    That you can imagine an activity which is illegal (murder and torture) and pretend one can do onto another as a slippery slope from prostitution shows that you have NO real argument agaisnt prostitution.

    Almost all your arguments are indirect one. Slippery slope, unrelated trafficking which would be illegal anyway, Just sayin'.
    I only brought up the murder and torture example to illustrate the point that there are instances where consenting adults are correctly not allowed to do whatever they wish to their own bodies despite being of consenting age. I was not offering that as an example of what you get when you legalise prostitution.

    Posted By: QuantenThe basic truth is that sex is legal between consenting adult, selling sex should also be legal, and it ain't the damn government business to regulate that. In fact it should redict all resource against prostitution, and pour them in against thereal sick stuff: trafficking and underage sex worker.
    It most certainly is the government’s business if people are being coerced into having sex against their will by the people selling them, or if vulnerable and desperate people are being exploited. Trafficking and underage prostitution are two particularly abhorrent aspects of prostitution that should indeed be a high priority for law enforcement. However, you will still end up with increased numbers of coerced and vulnerable people being exploited as a result of legalisation in instances that do not necessarily involve trafficking or underage prostitution, as stated previously:

    Posted By: DuracellMoreover, how could you possibly determine whether or not having sex for money would be someone’s genuine wish or actually something they would prefer not to do but feel that they have, for whatever reasons, no choice but to do? How could you possibly tell if someone was being forced into prostitution by a violent and abusive spouse, other family member, drug dealer or loan shark? Would somebody who would technically be there by choice but really only resorting to prostitution in desperatarion in order to try to raise money they need to avoid violent consequences really be there by choice? Would drug addicts, alcoholics and gambling addicts resorting to prostitution in order to feed their addictions really be there by choice? Would other poor, marginalised and vulnerable people with low self esteem and and mental health issues really be there by choice or as a consequence of being sexually exploited both by the people profiting from their exploitation and those taking advantage of it to satisfy their own sexual appetites?


    And, of course, as previously mentioned, the 2012 study, which is based on the best available data that we have, also shows that legalisation also results in increased numbers of trafficked and underage prostitutes.

    Ideally, I would prefer to see people free to do as they please. However, if allowing the people who would voluntarily and uncoerced choose to sell sex the freedom to do so would result in other people being denied their freedom to refuse to have sex with people they would prefer not to have sex with, as well as higher numbers of trafficked and underage prostitutes, then the price for granting the people who would voluntarily and uncoerced choose to sell sex the freedom to do so is just too high, and I would prefer to deny them their freedom to sell sex.
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTime4 days ago edited
     
    WTF!

    Bethnal Green sex assaults: Girl attacked three times in hour

    What sort of place is "Bethnal Green"?
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      CommentAuthorDuracell
    • CommentTime4 days ago edited
     
    They will probably claim that they were all under the influence of alcohol and other narcotics and that they thought she had given consent and that they did not realize she was as incoherent and off her head as she was. Sound familiar?
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      CommentAuthorDuracell
    • CommentTime4 days ago edited
     
    Posted By: maryyugoWhat sort of place is "Bethnal Green"?


    Hipster paradise.

    Bethnal Green neighbourhood guide – where to live in London

    Living in Bethnal Green is a true London experience. It’s one of those neighbourhoods where everybody gets mixed together, and you’ll find it has many different personalities. It’s starting to become very popular, especially with Londoners and young professionals. Bethnal Green is friendly, affordable and central! What more could you ask for?

    Bethnal Green : a diverse community (or: do Opposites attract?)

    What gives Bethnal Green its very special atmosphere is the way that different cultures combine here. You’ll find some pubs and clubs for the English working class with a Halal supermarket on one side and a boutique hotel on the other. You’ll find young, bohemian bankers living in the same building as an old Bangladeshi couple and a group of fun and frinedly international students. No question about it: it is its diversity that makes Bethnal Green such a particular and peculiar neighbourhood.

    Bethnal Green is a neighbourhood with an edge

    Bethnal Green is perfectly safe. If you ask any of the locals, people who have been living here for a year or two, and they’ll tell you. I don’t think I’ve ever met anybody who ran into trouble here. However, Bethnal Green does have an edge to it: it has a number of Gentleman’s Clubs, a bit of Gangster history in the 60s, some shadowy back lanes. It can look rough but feel safe, and this urban-gritty-vibe gives it a kick like a shot of chilli vodka.


    Making the headlines for all the wrong reasons recently: London acid attack suspected as men targeted in Bethnal Green
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    Hmmm... seems a lot of people from Bangladesh live there. Perhaps some Bangladeshi males thought their culture permits them to assault lone females walking at night. After all, they are asking for it, right?
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      CommentAuthorDuracell
    • CommentTime4 days ago edited
     
    Posted By: maryyugoHmmm... seems a lot of people from Bangladesh live there. Perhaps some Bangladeshi males thought their culture permits them to assault lone females walking at night. After all, they are asking for it, right?
    Oh, let’s prematurely jump to conclusions based purely on stereotypes and speculate on the basis of our prejudices, shall we? Seems it’s a popular place for students from abroad to live while they are studying in the UK. Perhaps some USAn college students thought their rape culture permitted them to act like it was Spring Break?
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTime4 days ago edited
     
    Perhaps. I was sort of musing on why you left out that consideration. The local culture is, apparently not mostly hippy. I happened on it by chance, reading descriptions of the location.

    Anyway, I hope they catch the perps, whoever they are. There are plenty of cameras, but apparently, for inexplicable reasons, they seem, from the illustrations, to take horribly blurry images. I've often wondered about the lack of quality in security cameras in varying settings. If the images are so bad, why bother at all? The excuse used to be that good cameras are expensive but now, SVGA is dirt cheap and even 4K video or time lapse are pretty affordable, especially considering that they last a long time and perform a potentially very important function.
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      CommentAuthorDuracell
    • CommentTime4 days ago edited
     
    Posted By: maryyugoPerhaps. I was sort of musing on why you left out that consideration.
    Because whether the rapists are local Londoners, or immigrants from Bangladesh, or local Londoners and sons or grandsons of Bangladeshi immigrants, or Japanese tourists, or Chinese businessmen, or Polish immigrants, or USAn students would be irrelevant to what I said, which was:

    Posted By: DuracellThey will probably claim that they were all under the influence of alcohol and other narcotics and that they thought she had given consent and that they did not realize she was as incoherent and off her head as she was. Sound familiar?


    Posted By: maryyugoThe local culture is, apparently not mostly hippy. I happened on it by chance, reading descriptions of the location.
    I said “hipster paradise”, not “hippy paradise” ...

    Posted By: maryyugoAnyway, I hope they catch the perps, whoever they are
    Agreed. The CCTV footage should hopefully expose the bullshit “blurred lines” defenses that they will be likely to put forth.
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      CommentAuthorDuracell
    • CommentTime3 days ago
     
    A question for our USAn ‘trappers: What is your opinion of the war you are fighting in the Sahel?

    US special forces deaths in Niger lift veil on shadow war against Islamists in the Sahel

    “Since [President] Trump took power, US forces deployed around the world have had a lot more room to manoeuvre. Decisions about when and what to engage have been devolved right down to unit level,” the former officer said. “Any soldier knows that if you give guys on the ground more independence, then they will be that much more aggressive and will take more risks.”


    Just another unknown battle that isn’t officially happening in one of the ongoing USAn wars against some noun or other wherever they choose to wage them - usually in places that most of the folks back home couldn’t point to on a map ...

    Reminder: Never happened. Even when it was happening. It didn't matter. It was of no interest ...

    No wonder so many US-of-Americans are befuddled by the anger the U.S. evokes around the world (particularly in the Muslim world), darkly clueless when it comes answering the pathetic question “Why Do They Hate Us?” In the US, and indeed across much of the West, “mainstream” media and in the reigning intellectual culture the record of ongoing US criminality is airbrushed out from official history and the mass culture even as it occurs. It is instantaneously tossed down George Orwell’s “memory hole.” As Harold Pinter noted in his acceptance of the 2005 Nobel Prize in Literature, dominant Western cultural authorities behave as if US imperial violence does not exist and never has. “Even while it was happening,” Pinter said, it never happened. It didn’t matter. It was of no interest.” Pinter was speaking of the Cold War era. Nothing has changed in this regard since the collapse of the Soviet Union. It’s very much the same today.
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    My opinion is documented in the We The People thread:

    The US should be bringing peace and democracy to the world by example, by constructive actions and humanitarian support, not waging reckless and inhumane campaigns of violence that are actually counterproductive to our security, ultimately serving the purposes of those who seek to spread terror and hatred.


    And furthermore: Fuck Trump!
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTime2 days ago edited
     
    Islamist extremists are the bane and plague of Nigeria. I am in favor of ANYTHING reasonable which helps to rid this unfortunate country of these scum. Why don't you go talk to *them*, Dura? They'd have you for dinner.
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      CommentAuthorpcstru
    • CommentTime2 days ago
     
    • CommentAuthorLakes
    • CommentTime2 days ago
     
    Tracing Brazil’s Guy Fawkes Masks
    The irony of the Anonymous mask
    "Every time that Rubies sells one – for $6.49, £5.16 or €10.50 – a cut of the profit goes to Warner Bros", or £1 on Ebay, yeah! stick it to the man! ;)
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      CommentAuthorSwissie
    • CommentTime2 days ago
     
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTime1 day ago
     
    ??