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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012 edited
     
    Problem with fairly new Win7 Dell Inspiron 560. Intermittently will fail to boot. Also BSOD's on boot. Once started seems to run OK though maybe (not sure) a bit slow. Virus checks including Malwarebytes negative.

    Problem is: the BSOD disappears almost as soon as it appears. Anyone know where if anywhere the information is saved? We can't read the error codes fast enough or get a photo because it doesn't happen predictably or often. Is that screen or its info saved somewhere? Why does it vanish within a second or two? What sense does that make?

    Dell has an extensive trouble shooting routine that depends on knowing the BSOD error codes.

    http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kcs/document?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&docid=DSN_362030&isLegacy=true

    I'd really like to avoid using the complicated and obscure MS debugger but at the moment it looks like we're headed that way.
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      CommentAuthorGrowler
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012
     
    Strip down to barebones (remove any additional hardware including graphics cards, additional memory, bluetooth/wireless keyboards/mice etc)

    With a simple monitor connected to the motherboard VGA port, and a simple keyboard ONLY attached, and every disk/cd rom/dvd etc disconnected, will it boot in safe mode?

    Yes - put back parts ONE by ONE - determine which is faulty
    No - Reseat memory AND processor, try again

    if still no, replace memory
    if still no, replace processor
    If still no, replace motherboard

    BUT - since problem is intermittent, it's more likely just dust or dirt in a slot somewhere - reseating everything after a decent vac clean might cure it, or it might not. Intermittent boot problems are very rarely malware or virus related in my experience. YMMV
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      CommentAuthorgenesis
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012 edited
     
    @Mary

    < http://www.sevenforums.com/crashes-debugging/41605-bsod-error-logs.html >

    can you post HW specs ? is this the correct one?

    computer seems to be rather old - likely it came with XP , in this case the problem for win7 could be BIOS - check for the latest version. Then try latest drivers, if that doesn't help either - start looking at hardware. I assume that W7 is a clean install-if not - try reinstall.
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012 edited
     
    Thanks Growlie. We'll do the scrape and clean routine.

    Genesis: it's the correct series. This is a friend's machine and I am not sure the original specs however I know that it came with Win7 originally, not XP and that it worked fine for more than a year without a single hiccup. So this is something new. I think the CPU is an Intel dual core with at least 4GB of RAM.

    My friend says it happened right after a Windows update but since those happen every week, I suspect that this is a coincidence.

    It's very intermittent. Isn't happening at the moment. I tend towards Growler's explanation.

    EDIT: OK, from the service tag number (the info list is endless so excerpts):

    Processor, E6700, 3.2, 2MB, Wolfdale, 65W, R0

    4 each, Dual In-line Memory Module, 1G 1333, 128X64, 8, 240, 1RX8

    Much of the other "information" under configuration makes no sense unless maybe you're a Dell tech. Take this example: "SERVICE CHARGE..., SOFTWARE..., DCON, 2.1, DELL AMERICAS ORGANIZATION..., EUROPE, MIDDLE EAST & AFRICA..., BRAZIL CUSTOMER CENTER" or this "SERVICE CHARGE..., OPERATING SYSTEM..., INTERNAL/EXTERNAL CHANNELS..., INSTALLER".

    Computer makers. Cheech!
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      CommentAuthorgenesis
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012 edited
     
    if it came with win7 and worked fine before, then all you can do is either clean dust + re-seat HW or look for the downloaded win update causing the problem.
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012
     
    Posted By: genesislook for the downloaded win update causing the problem.
    How in the world would you do that?

    What interest me (sort of) is that the BSOD disappears within a second or so of appearing and the screen goes black. What in the world did MS have in mind with that? Their last resort isn't resorting!
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      CommentAuthorgenesis
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012
     
    Posted By: maryyugoHow in the world would you do that?
    two ways IMO.

    1) system restore

    2) control panel ->programms and features -> view installed updates.

    in either case you should know approximate date when the BSODthing started.

    Posted By: maryyugoBSOD disappears within a second or so of appearing and the screen goes black. What in the world did MS have in mind with that?
    it is probably not *only* microsofts fault.
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      CommentAuthorgenesis
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012
     
    if you want to test HW you might want to use these tools:

    CPUtest

    memory test

    when testing your CPU it is necessary to monitor temperature
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012 edited
     
    Thanks.

    Interestingly, on another system from a different manufacturer, I just saw a BSOD after IE9 hung on a web site. It's been doing that more and more often but usually closing it allowed me to continue and restart it. FF, BTW, does not do this on the same system.

    System is a Gateway FX, i7, 12GB, Win7, Intel SSD.

    After the BSOD, the system seemed to have somewhat scrambled boot drive information. I restored that manually from setup. When Win7 came up, it provided this:

    Problem signature:
    Problem Event Name: BlueScreen
    OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.768.3
    Locale ID: 1033

    Additional information about the problem:
    BCCode: 116
    BCP1: FFFFFA80185324E0
    BCP2: FFFFF88005305EFC
    BCP3: 0000000000000000
    BCP4: 0000000000000002
    OS Version: 6_1_7601
    Service Pack: 1_0
    Product: 768_1

    Files that help describe the problem:
    C:\Windows\Minidump\120112-14586-01.dmp
    C:\Users\SSD_delta\AppData\Local\Temp\WER-17082-0.sysdata.xml


    What next? And what would a small business or individual end user be expected to do now?
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      CommentAuthorgenesis
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: maryyugo
    What next? And what would a small business or individual end user be expected to do now?
    use your imagination it is a graphics related problem. sinc you said something about IE9....probably you should have a look into IE settings for HW acceleration of webpages(just a far guess).
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012 edited
     
    MY has found it.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012
     
    Posted By: maryyugoThanks Growlie. We'll do the scrape and clean routine.

    Genesis: it's the correct series. This is a friend's machine and I am not sure the original specs however I know that it came with Win7 originally, not XP and that it worked fine for more than a year without a single hiccup. So this is something new. I think the CPU is an Intel dual core with at least 4GB of RAM.

    My friend says it happened right after a Windows update but since those happen every week, I suspect that this is a coincidence.

    It's very intermittent. Isn't happening at the moment. I tend towards Growler's explanation.

    EDIT: OK, from the service tag number (the info list is endless so excerpts):

    Processor, E6700, 3.2, 2MB, Wolfdale, 65W, R0

    4 each, Dual In-line Memory Module, 1G 1333, 128X64, 8, 240, 1RX8

    Much of the other "information" under configuration makes no sense unless maybe you're a Dell tech. Take this example: "SERVICE CHARGE..., SOFTWARE..., DCON, 2.1, DELL AMERICAS ORGANIZATION..., EUROPE, MIDDLE EAST & AFRICA..., BRAZIL CUSTOMER CENTER" or this "SERVICE CHARGE..., OPERATING SYSTEM..., INTERNAL/EXTERNAL CHANNELS..., INSTALLER".

    Computer makers. Cheech!
    The machine sounds like it is circa 2007. This sounds like the plague of bad electrolytic capacitors. Is the problem worse when the computer is cold? If so, the capacitors should be high on the list of suspects. If you have an oscilloscope, you can look at how noisy the various power supply voltages are. If you want to keep everything the same, then would search for a replacement M/B. You can probably find one for under $100.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012
     
    Other insidious problems: Bad graphics cards or main power supply. Graphics cards go bad if they over heat. And a lot of them have shitty fans. Remove the graphics card and inspect for any signs of problems with the fan: Heavy dust encrustation, deformed plastic, etc. If so, retest with a known good graphics card.
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: joshsThe machine sounds like it is circa 2007.
    Nope. Late 2010. Doubt very much it has capacitor issues.

    Posted By: joshsOther insidious problems: Bad graphics cards or main power supply.
    Mmmmm... maybe. I'd prefer to have something pointing to it.

    I just realized I am not sure which machine we're talking about. The Dell is late 2010. The Gateway probably late 2009. The graphics card on the Gateway isn't cheap. It's a 512MB ATI Radeon HD 4850.

    Posted By: genesisprobably you should have a look into IE settings for HW acceleration of webpages(just a far guess).
    I appreciate the help but I don't see any such settings in IE9. Unless you mean "use software rendering instead of GPU rendering" but I don't think I would need to do that!

    As for updating drivers, the recommendation from MS is to use Windows update and this system is automatically updated.
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      CommentAuthorgenesis
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012
     
    Posted By: joshsThis sounds like the plague of bad electrolytic capacitors
    BTW dell is known for these problems in the past.
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: genesisBTW dell is known for these problems in the past.
    Well, we can look. Usually you can see the top of the capacitor case trying to burst out. I have not seen any of that in any machine newer than about 2007 except for one monitor and that was about 2008. Neither of our machines is that old. But thanks, it's another place to look.
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      CommentAuthorgenesis
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012
     
    Posted By: maryyugoUnless you mean "use software rendering instead of GPU rendering" but I don't think I would need to do that!
    yes that. If you have a driver conflict/problem using SW rendering will indicate it. It's a way to test if the problem disappears.

    Posted By: maryyugoAs for updating drivers, the recommendation from MS is to use Windows update and this system is automatically updated.
    sometimes it is new drivers that might cause the problem....it is easy to revert to an older one and see if the problem still exists.
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012 edited
     
    Thanks. Unfortunately (or fortunately) the problem on the Gateway is like once a month. I don't know yet how frequent it will be on the Dell. Something that infrequent is hard to study. Both computers, BTW, run 24/7. And both get rebooted every few days whether they need it or not, LOL.

    I guess I can answer my own question -- what would a novice user, an untrained home or a small business user do. It's sort of like asking what you do if an elephant sits on your fence. You get a new fence. I guess a new computer. And quick before the horror of Windows8 is unavoidable.
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      CommentAuthorgenesis
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: maryyugoAnd quick before the horror of Windows8 is unavoidable.
    LOL...actually...i have been using *IT* on my netbook....for awhile.(facepalm) ....because it is much faster than W7...tiny atom CPU loves it very much. However....after install it takes me about an hour to apply various registry hacks and tweaks to bring it to NORMAL usable interface....otherwise it works fine , i even managed to get rid of various BSODs....still i would not recommend it for desktop.
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      CommentAuthorgenesis
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: maryyugoI guess I can answer my own question -- what would a novice user, an untrained home or a small business user do
    recently a friend of mine came to me and asked if i could help him with his little samsung 15" kitchen TV , he said it worked fine for few years and now it "misbehaves" ....so i opened it up and first thing spotted almost ball-like cheap electrolytic capacitor and a few blown smd fuses. The cap was rated @16V 4700uF 85C and it "sat" on the main output of PSU. so i replaced the faulty components and the TV worked fine afterwards.....BUT the main thing i was surprised about - the faulty cap, was filtering psu with an output of 15V....this is something a skilled engineer would never design - the cap should be chosen at least for 25V and 105C(prefered)....here comes the question - was it done on a purpose?