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      CommentAuthorpcstru
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2014
     
    x-c = Cross country.
    • CommentAuthorLakes
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2014
     
    Posted By: joshs
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanThat to me seems to be an incredible state of affairs. Straight out of Kafka. Professional pilots in charge of hundreds of lives who cannot fly.

    @Al: Do they have heating boots on the pitot tubes?
    But that is just what is happening. Pilots get very little time at the controls on the job. That trend is accelerating.

    And yes, pitot tubes have heaters. Rossi has been borrowing them as safety devices for his eCats.
    Future pilot training - Press the large button labeled GO to take off, and when it's time to land, press the large button labeled STOP. ;)
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2014
     
    They don't have radar coverage and flight following in that area? (I have no idea about it) Why was she not talking to someone?
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2014
     
    Posted By: LakesFuture pilot training - Press the large button labeled GO to take off, and when it's time to land, press the large button labeled STOP. ;)
    Isn't that what they want to do to drivers? A much more complex tax as far as situational awareness than flying?
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2014
     
    Posted By: maryyugoA much more complex tax as far as situational awareness than flying?


    Traffic's usually worse, but navigation is much easier.
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: AngusTraffic's usually worse, but navigation is much easier.
    There far more tiny things coming at you with little advance warning from very close at pretty fast closing speeds. The scenery is way more complex. The driving task has been estimated as 10x or more as complex as the flying task, especially when flying at altitude as opposed to landing.

    Is navigation easier? If you have GPS in both vehicles?
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2014
     
    Posted By: maryyugoIf you have GPS in both vehicles?


    We just heard it doesn't always succeed in getting the airplane to the right place. I have heard stories about cars as as well. And of course sometimes the GPS itself quits working.
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    Posted By: Angus
    Posted By: maryyugoIf you have GPS in both vehicles?


    We just heard it doesn't always succeed in getting the airplane to the right place. I have heard stories about cars as as well. And of course sometimes the GPS itself quits working.


    In this case the GPS worked fine and did exactly what it was told to do. IIRC the proximal cause of the event was simply transposing tow digits on entry. Easy to do, easy to miss. That is the point. The student pilot did not understand the automation, relied upon it exclusively, and allowed it to lead her to her death. The fact that she didn't actually die from one of the (at least) three fatal mistakes can only be attributed to the protection of a guardian angel. Or amazing blind luck (literally).
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    Posted By: maryyugoThey don't have radar coverage and flight following in that area? (I have no idea about it) Why was she not talking to someone?


    I am not sure that she even filed a flight plan for this "simple" VFR xc flight. And she probably was talking to "someone"... on the cellphone.

    The point isn't so much that she did a lot of stuff wrong, but that she was essentially _trained_ to do those things, and her training led her to believe that they were the right things to do, or at least adequate for the situation. It is inconceivable to me that a flight instructor would let a student go out of sight of the home field, unless she can navigate to and from some distant spot in visual conditions using map and "whiskey compass" alone.

    She wasn't supposed to be anywhere near the mountains on that flight so it's _barely_ excusable that she made the errors in preparation and execution involving mountain flying.... barely.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: alsetalokinIn this case the GPS worked fine and did exactly what it was told to do.


    I know. I wrote that sentence with some care and attention. And emphasized what I meant in the third sentence. Subtlety - it's such fun!
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    Tell me about it...
    ;)
    Posted By: alsetalokinsimply transposing tow digits
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2014
     
    U2,A?
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    or two letters
    flying -> frying
    • CommentAuthorpa32r
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2014
     
    Posted By: alsetalokin
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanThat to me seems to be an incredible state of affairs. Straight out of Kafka. Professional pilots in charge of hundreds of lives who cannot fly.

    @Al: Do they have heating boots on the pitot tubes?


    Not boots but internal electric heating coils, drain holes, etc.

    Read this... and be afraid, very afraid.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447#Pitot_tubes

    @MY: the point of my selected flight numbers was to emphasize that there seems to be a culture of pilot incompetence (defined my way) at Air France. The Toronto "survivable" overrun in a storm is a great example.
    But it's not just AF and it seems to me to be due to complacency and overreliance on automation, combined with a failure to understand and act appropriately during one of the myriad of automation "failure" modes... most of which are caused by the pilots themselves, like the Asiana crash at SFO.
    Children of the Magenta Line. The solo x-c student navigating by her cellphone. It's a tragedy looking for a place to happen and it happens far too much. Automation is great and a modern airliner would be impossible to operate without it. Pilots who know how to fly, first, are also great, and even if they only need to do it once every twenty years, they need to be ready and capable of doing it.

    Power, attitude, configuration. Aviate, navigate, communicate. Speed is life. The pilot who does not understand these things is just a taxi driver taking you to the scene of the crash.


    Say "needle, ball, airspeed." Say it again. "Needle, ball, airspeed." Again... "Needle, ball, airspeed."

    Now: Say "aviate, navigate, communicate." Say it again: "Aviate, navigate, communicate." Again..."Aviate, navigate, communicate."

    Now go back to "needle, ball, airspeed." Again....
    • CommentAuthorloreman
    • CommentTimeOct 7th 2014
     
  5.  
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2014
     
    Yeah - that's been posted here before. But the video is a year old and I can't seem to find any sign of progress.
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2014
     
    Posted By: AngusYeah - that's been posted here before. But the video is a year old and I can't seem to find any sign of progress.
    One could guess that power/speed/lift capacity/endurance are problems?
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2014 edited
     
    One could easily ask that, but one would like to know how it actually turned out, since the proponents seemed to be doing good work on the idea.

    Here's something a bit newer with more information. They say 20 min endurance at present.
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    My impression was that it was still too heavy. But as battery tech improves by leaps and bounds, that won't remain true for much longer. And some structural improvements could add lightness as well.