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      CommentAuthorGrimer
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2010
     
    To reproduce Bessler's wheel it is not necessary to produce a physical model in the first instance. All that is necessary is to show by a theoretical model that it is possible. I believe that this can be done. Indeed, I believe that there is more than enough talent in this forum for that. I may find those people who piss upon my post from a great height particularly irritating but I do not see them stupid. The only thing that is holding them back is the sincere belief that what I am attempting is impossible.

    Sailing directly into the wind was once thought to be impossible but the Ventomobil has given an practical demonstration that this isn't so. I feel sure that if they read Collins' scholarly book on Bessler some of them at least would be more open to the idea that Bessler did indeed have what he claimed.

    The Internet opens up the possibility of co-operative invention in a way and on a scale that was impossible in the past. I believe that it is by such co-operation that Bessler's secret will be discovered. Any forum member who is too embarrassed to associate themselves publicly with a "Bessler nutcase" can always send me comments as a PM or as an email to

    eightyeightdotfrankatgooglemaildotcom - the two 8s are numerals.

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    Assuming that the Bessler wheel has the same functionality as a spoked wheel and works in a similar way to the Rubber Band Motor then certain advantages become clear.

    The rim and the spokes are functionally different. Virtually all the mass can be concentrated in the rim and hardly any mass in the spokes.

    By contrast, virtually all the strain energy can be concentrated as positive strain energy in the spokes and hardly any negative strain energy (Ekergy) in the rim. This separation of functional elements reminds me of the kind of physical elemental separation one used to carry out in sixth-form chemical analysis practicals.

    The gravitational forces on the rim are much less than the potential spoke forces on the wheel. Forces are potential accelerations. This can be appreciated by taking a balancing force away and thinking of the accelerations which would result. For example: if all the air is moved from in front of a person then he will be propelled forward with a pressure of fourteen point something psi. Wind pressure is only a small fraction of total atmospheric pressure.

    The acceleration on the rim system produced by gravity is an order of magnitude smaller than the potential accelerations that can be produced on the rim by the spoke system.

    I believe it can be shown that the gravitational energy produced by the mass of the rim acting eccentrically to the axle support can exceed the gravitational energy needed to keep the spoke system in oscillation. The difference is the energy available for useful work.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2010
     
    Frank, gravity is a conservative field. Get off the drugs.
    • CommentAuthorBigOilRep
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2010
     
    lol
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      CommentAuthorbloodymedia
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2010 edited
     
    Interesting.
    How would this wheel behave if we use a solid disc instead of a spoked wheel?
    And what happens if we use only one single spoke (like in these old Citroen steering wheels)?
    And what if we use some tin foil or platic foil instead of the spokes, shaping something like an infinite, but very lightweight spoke system?
    What if we put additional weights to the rim?
    What happens if we use a log-shaped wheel instead of a disc-shaped?

    (keeping him busy;-)
  1.  
    Frank, you're wasting your time thinking about this. If something falls a distance 'x', it must be lifted 'x' to restore its former potential energy. There's no shortcut back to the top of the hill.
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2010 edited
     
    To reproduce Bessler's wheel it is not necessary to produce a physical model in the first instance.


    To reproduce a pink invisible flying unicorn (PIFU) it is not necessary to produce a physical model. However, you do need two PIFU's of appropriately different genders. Since PIFU's are found in at least four genders, and not all combinations reproduce, this can present an interesting challenge.

    I find it fascinating that someone who has as much learning and experience as Grimer seems to have had can think something as simple and obviously fallacious as a gravity wheel can work. Talk about self-bamboozlement!
  2.  
    @postposterous
    You're forgetting about Mr Finger who is very good at that sort of thing.

    In Frank's case, Mr Finger can be replaced by the sucking of the beta, or gamma, or something, atmosphere.
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2010
     
    Indeed those atmospheres suck but not quite the way Professor Grimer believes them to.
    • CommentAuthornycbon
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2010
     
    Posted By: maryyugo
    To reproduce Bessler's wheel it is not necessary to produce a physical model in the first instance.


    To reproduce a pink invisible flying unicorn (PIFU) it is not necessary to produce a physical model. However, you do need two PIFU's of appropriately different genders. Since PIFU's are found in at least four genders, and not all combinations reproduce, this can present an interesting challenge.

    I find it fascinating that someone who has as much learning and experience as Grimer seems to have had can think something as simple and obviously fallacious as a gravity wheel can work. Talk about self-bamboozlement!


    To be fair, he also believes in the existence of a infallible, omnipotent, caring, involved god who has admitted mistakes in the old testament and has left evidence of innumerable others in the tatters of the world around us...
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      CommentAuthorGrimer
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2010
     
    Posted By: nycbon
    To be fair, he also believes in the existence of a infallible, omnipotent, caring, involved god ...

    I do indeed.

    And in Jesus Christ his only Son, Our Lord.
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      CommentAuthorDuracell
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2010 edited
     
    What about Jesus' brother James?

    Or is he considered to be only a half brother being a son of Jesus' mother's husband, instead of a son of God?
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2010
     
    @Duracell

    Come now. No discussion of women or religion in the mess. And this place is definitely turning into a mess.
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      CommentAuthorDuracell
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2010
     
    Well we do all try our best to contribute to it! ;)
    • CommentAuthornova
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2010
     
    Posted By: Grimer
    Posted By: nycbon
    To be fair, he also believes in the existence of a infallible, omnipotent, caring, involved god ...

    I do indeed.

    And in Jesus Christ his only Son, Our Lord.

    Maybe God did Mary in the butt, that would make Jesus a shit baby.
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      CommentAuthorGrimer
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2010 edited
     
    Posted By: PostposterousFrank, you're wasting your time thinking about this. ...
    That is rather ironic because I believe the Bessler solution does involve wasting time - as does the Carnot cycle. Sauntering slowly up and down the isothermal legs before rushing helter skelter along the adiabatic legs is essential how the energy is corralled.

    I recommend you my essay on the nature of time.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2010
     
    Posted By: GrimerI recommend you myessay on the nature of time.


    Well, Frank, I actually read it, and a more ridiculous piece of blather I have not seen. Just for the record, it is no surprise that time and space can be interchangeable. It'll happen to you too, if you get too near a gravitational singularity. As for the rest of it, it conveniently ignores the distinction easily made between forward time and backward time by watching which way disorder grows. A glance at the political situation will tell you.
  3.  
    So everything really happened all at once and time is just what it takes to sort it all out.
  4.  
    Posted By: Grimer
    Posted By: PostposterousFrank, you're wasting your time thinking about this. ...
    That is rather ironic because I believe the Bessler solution does involve wasting time - as does the Carnot cycle. Sauntering slowly up and down the isothermal legs before rushing helter skelter along the adiabatic legs is essential how the energy is corralled.

    I recommend you myessay on the nature of time.


    That was kind of like reading the lyrics to "I am the Walrus".
  5.  
    Frank, your faith is admirable. But your logic sucks.
    Please see Feynman on the superiority of experimental data to theory.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2010
     
    Posted By: Grimer
    Posted By: nycbon
    To be fair, he also believes in the existence of a infallible, omnipotent, caring, involved god ...

    I do indeed.

    And in Jesus Christ his only Son, Our Lord.
    How dare you blaspheme the true god: the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Talk like yours isn't going to find the favor of his noodly apendage.