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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeMar 11th 2010
     
    Posted By: Grimer
    Posted By: Angus...
    There is no honest purpose in giving a different name to the negative of the same thermodynamic scalar.
    ...

    Are you suggesting that Quine was being dishonest - that he was trolling the academic community?


    From the Wiki entry, yes. I'm with bc on this. He has made a distinction without a difference and parlayed it into a publication. Good for tenure.

    From an engineering perspective, which is all that really matters here, sticking a negative sign in front of a measure does not change it into a measure of something else. It just changes what the measurement was.

    As to good and negevil, etc., you are being even more disingenuous than usual. If you can provide an objective measure for either good or evil, including SI units please, then I might be able to consider the question. But as it stands it is as much a nonsense as the question "what does silence weigh?"
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      CommentAuthorGrimer
    • CommentTimeMar 11th 2010
     
    Posted By: Angus
    Posted By: Grimer
    Posted By: Angus...
    There is no honest purpose in giving a different name to the negative of the same thermodynamic scalar.
    ...

    Are you suggesting that Quine was being dishonest - that he was trolling the academic community?


    From the Wiki entry, yes. I'm with bc on this. He has made a distinction without a difference and parlayed it into a publication. Good for tenure.

    From an engineering perspective, which is all that really matters here, sticking a negative sign in front of a measure does not change it into a measure of something else. It just changes what the measurement was.

    As to good and negevil, etc., you are being even more disingenuous than usual. If you can provide an objective measure for either good or evil, including SI units please, then I might be able to consider the question. But as it stands it is as much a nonsense as the question "what does silence weigh?"

    Your opinion is noted.
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      CommentAuthormisterfish
    • CommentTimeMar 11th 2010
     
    Posted By: Grimer"what does silence weigh?"


    Depends how `eavy the t'ing you was talkin' about first , innit????
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeMar 11th 2010
     
    Posted By: GrimerYour opinion is noted.


    "Your opinion is noted, Comrade", was usually followed by a quick bullet to the back of the head. Or the stake in bygone times.

    But seriously folks, this is not a matter of opinion. This is a matter of demonstrated correspondence with reality. So far we have Grimer - 0, Physics - good and getting better.

    So I am left wondering why you persist in this stuff if not just for the amusement of inducing stunned astonishment? Are you a renegade? Surely such ignorance cannot be naturally acquired!
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeMar 11th 2010
     
    Posted By: alsetalokinhttp://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/enthalpy.html

    Sorry - I must be missing something here. Enthalpy is not the same thing as negative entropy, or any kind of entropy.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeMar 11th 2010
     
    Posted By: misterfish
    Posted By: Grimer"what does silence weigh?"


    Depends how `eavy the t'ing you was talkin' about first , innit????


    Ha! I think you are confusing that question with the very real question "How much will silence COST?"
    • CommentAuthorYAFFP
    • CommentTimeMar 11th 2010 edited
     
    Posted By: Angus
    Posted By: misterfish
    Posted By: Grimer"what does silence weigh?"


    Depends how `eavy the t'ing you was talkin' about first , innit????


    Ha! I think you are confusing that question with the very real question "How much will silence COST?"


    No I think your question is wrong.

    You cannot buy silence anymore than you can think of nothing.

    The mere fact that someone stops saying things leaves a thousand words unsaid.

    This is the MO of Steorn!!!

    When Sean is silent the true believers say there is a big announcement coming, the skeptics say that it is proof that Steorn has nothing.
    • CommentAuthorYAFFP
    • CommentTimeMar 11th 2010
     
    Actually come to think of it that might be the same MO of God.
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    @Angus: You're not missing anything. Frank is.
    From the link:
    For a gas, a useful additional state variable is the enthalpy which is defined to be the sum of the internal energy E plus the product of the pressure p and volume V. Using the symbol H for the enthalpy:

    H = E + p * V

    The enthalpy can be made into an intensive, or specific , variable by dividing by the mass. Propulsion engineers use the specific enthalpy in engine analysis more than the enthalpy itself.

    How does one use this new variable called enthalpy? Let's consider the first law of thermodynamics for a gas. For a system with heat transfer Q and work W, the change in internal energy E from state 1 to state 2 is equal to the difference in the heat transfer into the system and the work done by the system:

    E2 - E1 = Q - W

    The work and heat transfer depend on the process used to change the state. For the special case of a constant pressure process, the work done by the gas is given as the constant pressure p times the change in volume V:

    W = p * [V2 - V1]

    Substituting into the first equation, we have:

    E2 - E1 = Q - p * [V2 - V1]

    Let's group the conditions at state 2 and the conditions at state 1 together:

    (E2 + p * V2) - (E1 + p * V1) = Q

    The (E + p * V) can be replaced by the enthalpy H.

    H2 - H1 = Q
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeMar 11th 2010
     
    Posted By: YAFFPThe mere fact that someone stops saying things leaves a thousand words unsaid


    Right. And the price is usually related to what thousand words are not said to whom.

    Anyway, it's a witticism. I won't pursue it.
    • CommentAuthorYAFFP
    • CommentTimeMar 12th 2010
     
    Ah ha, we have your silence and it cost nothing.