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Technology: Hydrogen back in the eco-car race

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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2020
     
    HyNet hydrogen project gets £13m funding boost.

    https://www.theengineer.co.uk/hynet-3m-funding-boost/
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2020
     
    Hydrogen will be distributed by way of a new pipeline network under development by Cadent, which will also provide the pathway for renewable hydrogen once costs come down in the future. It is hoped that the project will eventually also deliver hydrogen to domestic customers.


    Well, there you go. Long hydrogen pipeline is the very devil to leakproof. "When costs come down" can be said of virtually any technology. Sometimes it happens--more often, not.
  3.  
    short Cadent
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2020
     
    They will adsorb it into Pt dust which will be blown through the pipeline and pumped into your car. You have to pay a deposit on the Pt, which is blown through your tank and recovered ar the next fill up. The deposit is $50,000 per tank.
  5.  
    Why not just send the energy to make the hydrogen down the pipeline, and use it to make the hydrogen where it is needed? You'd need skinnier pipes and they wouldn't even need to be hollow.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2020
     
    Good idea. We could use photons as the transfer medium and then we could just use glass rods to carry them. We'd need multi-BegaWatt lasers at one end, and some way to store them, but that's just engineering.
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2020
     
    ...and it will be commercially viable when the costs come down.

    Back in my young and stupid (now I'm old and stupid and much wiser) days, part of my service route was at a hydrogen producing plant for a steel mill continuous galvanizing line. Very high tech for the time. Talking to the operators, it wasn't a matter of things not leaking, but how much. To enter, one emptied one's pockets, left the tool belt and had the heels of your work boots inspected for any bits of metal that might cause a spark. You were issued spark proof tools, which were really terrible (made of bronze).

    Hydrogen under pressure is safe, suuuure it is...
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2020
     
    Or you could just use natural gas pipeline technology.
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181029130939.htm
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2020
     
    I recall the mandated storage method for H2 bottles used in the lab I worked in in the 1960s. Number one: outside the building. Number two: in the open air.
    • CommentAuthorBigOilRep
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2020
     
    Posted By: AsterixHydrogen under pressure is safe, suuuure it is...

    Well, haven't seen any of the hydrogen powered buses in London explode yet, though I'm always on the look out.

    They are buying a huge fleet of them, so it looks like there will be a niche. China is also apparently going big on hydrogen, whatever that's worth.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2020
     
    It's a little easier to store and monitor hydrogen gas in a central bus depot than it would be in a widespread network of filling stations. Still, probably possible.

    The buses no doubt store the bottles outside the body so leakage doesn't get trapped.
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2020
     
    Posted By: AngusOr you could just use natural gas pipeline technology.
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181029130939.htm


    Producer gas has been used on and off for much more than a century. Those Victorian "gasworks" made the stuff, which also explains the reputation as a deadly toxic gas.
    •  
      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeApr 18th 2020
     
    Metal-organic framework materials show promise for fuel cells.

    https://www.theengineer.co.uk/metal-organic-framework-hydrogen-fuel-cell/

    Maybe Bezos will support it, of course producing the hydrogen would still be a problem?
  14.  
    Yes. So stop it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2020
     
    More renewable and HB11 investment.

    Job sorted.
    •  
      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2020
     
    Will help renewables as well, if too much energy is produced when the sun shines and the wind blows then store it as hydrogen.

    Do away with fossil fuels, Britain already has a fuel cell train and are considering using them to replace diesel ones, this should make it a no brainer, could be considered for planes and boats as well.
    •  
      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2020
     
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeJun 18th 2020
     
    I think that the last part--converting the raw hydrogen into ammonia or related compounds is going to be the stopper. Ammonia synthesis is a very energy-intensive process--it's driven by catalysis, which requires the feedstock to be relatively pure (danger of poisoning the catalyst) and performed under high temperatures and high pressure (200-300 bar) with relatively low yield (<20%), requiring multiple passes.

    Most ammonia so produced is used as fertilizer.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJun 18th 2020
     
    For the nitrate, presumably? But you can get that out of the ground for cheap.
    •  
      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeJun 18th 2020 edited
     
    @Asterix

    Did you read this about the latest way to store hydrogen efficiently?

    Repost.


    Metal-organic framework materials show promise for fuel cells.

    https://www.theengineer.co.uk/metal-organic-framework-hydrogen-fuel-cell/

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