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      CommentAuthorgoatcheez
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2017 edited
     
    I remember the August 2006 full page ad and was almost as excited as with the Fleischmann/Pons article in the Wall Street Journal two and a half decades earlier. I would like to know the opinion of the knowledgeable here. Do you think

    a) That Steorn really observed an anomaly (or what they thought was an anomaly); or,

    b) Do you think it was a hoax from the beginning?

    And for Mr. Angus. I believe I read that you know Dr. Ian MacDonald. Did he think he would see anything unusual when he led jury?

    Thx in advance, GC

    PS Since they have liquidated, you could probably change the forum back to "Not the Steorn Forum"; although, the present name has character.
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2017
     
    b. There's nothing in physics that would support the claim--and that was made clear to Shaun. His personality wouldn't allow it.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2017
     
    I have never been able to decide whether they thought they had something at the very beginning. But it's pretty clear that they knew they had nothing quite early on - certainly after 2007.

    I do know MacDonald. As far as I understand, he went in with as open a mind as he could muster up.
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      CommentAuthorpcstru
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2017
     
    b).
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      CommentAuthorgoatcheez
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2017
     
    Posted By: pcstrub).
    Asterix, so do you think it's an intentional hoax? and psctru?

    I do. They were hurting from the post-millenium IT bubble burst so they made up this story about finding an anomaly while doing, what was it, pan/tilt camera control for ATM machines? Something of the sort.

    @Angus, it is good to hear that Dr. Mac did not prejudge the results.
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2017
     
    Absolutely. Shaun's subsequent behavior pretty much indicates his proclivities. Witness the SKDB fiasco.

    There are still plenty of similar scams going on.
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      CommentAuthorDuracell
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2017
     
    It was all about the €24 million that, with the help of Pat, they raised from their investors and burned through for as long as it lasted. The actual claims and all the dog and pony show exhibitions and launches were purely for the benefit of the investors. There was no tech, no discovery and no anomaly.
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      CommentAuthorpcstru
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2017
     
    Posted By: DuracellIt was all about the €24 million that, with the help of Pat, they raised from their investors and burned through for as long as it lasted. The actual claims and all the dog and pony show exhibitions and launches were purely for the benefit of the investors. There was no tech, no discovery and no anomaly.

    ^This.
    • CommentAuthorloreman
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2017
     
    What's a Steorn?
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      CommentAuthorgoatcheez
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2017
     
    Steorn is a Norse word meaning to guide or manage.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2017
     
    Posted By: goatcheez@Angus, it is good to hear that Dr. Mac did not prejudge the results.


    From what I know it was difficult enough to organise a post-judgement. Although since there were no results, I'm not sure "post" is the appropriate word.
    • CommentAuthorloreman
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2017
     
    Posted By: goatcheezSteorn is a Norse word meaning to guide or manage.


    Steorn's a bunch of unemployed and possibly quite nervous Irishmen, whom I have purposefully forgotten.
  1.  
    Posted By: AngusAlthough since there were no results, I'm not sure "post" is the appropriate word.
    "post-SooN"?
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      CommentAuthoralsetalokin
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2017 edited
     
    But there was a core of truth in their early claims. The Minato-style Kinetica Orbo will indeed turn, seemingly on its own, as long as the stator magnets are hand-held, due to involuntary out-of-phase corrections in Mr. Hand's position while trying to hold the stator still. And the first electric Orbos (the "Plinths") did take advantage of a non-intuitive effect of induced magnetic field on permeability of certain ferrite materials. Even some of the patter had a core of truth, like the Kinetica Orbo failing due to "hot lights" (axial jeweled bearing clearance reduced by thermal expansion of the axle and supporting structures being sufficient to damage the delicate custom-made jeweled bearing surfaces) and the "slow in/fast out" seemingly anomalous acceleration during the power-off phase of the toroidal-core Plinth pulse motor cycle.

    My own opinion was that the lads were originally duped from inside (Tacho-man?), and Sean decided to run with it at some point, probably when Pat got people to throw millions of Euro at him. And it was all downhill from there.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2017
     
    Posted By: duncan torus"post-SooN"?


    Oxymoron
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2017
     
    Posted By: alsetalokinthe lads were originally duped from inside (Tacho-man?), and Sean decided to run with it at some point,


    More or less what I think. As you say, there was an element of technical cleverness among the dross.
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      CommentAuthoraber0der
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2017
     
    I found their wind generator optimization backstory 101% believable. And the water pump site survey excursion. And the 'k-toy' video with Thieu Knapen. And the ridiculous FOX News interview with Neil Excavuto.
  2.  
    I did not believe Steorn from day one. Perhaps a bias on my part from understanding thermodynamics. However, I was willing to have them go through their various so called "reveals" and dog and pony shows that actually showed nothing convincing in the long run.

    The problem I had mostly was with Shaun himself. He was constantly prevaricating and seemed to make shit up as he went along. Apparently a lot of people fell for his pseudo charisma but to me he was a charlatan from the get go. The water pumps for Africa really showed me what bullshit artists they were especially when I caught Shaun saying they were designing the pumps after he had said previously when pressed that they were being installed. I thought using a ploy like this for people in desperate need of potable water to promote a seemingly magnanimous gesture was despicable. I lost all respect for him after that.

    I also knew of a jury member and his assessment only convinced me further that they were full of shit. Plus so many other "tells" in their behavior. Phil Watson who was very keen on Steorn never could get the thing to do what they said after a year of testing. CLanZer who was one of the most capable and diligent supporters never could get anything to work. It was all so much bollocks and the $24 Million kept them in curry for almost ten years.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2017
     
    Of course it was impossible to believe that they actually had perpetual motion. What I found interesting (in the beginning) was to try to figure out whether they thought they did, and if so, why?
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      CommentAuthorgoatcheez
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2017
     
    Posted By: alsetalokinBut there was a core of truth in their early claims. The Minato-style Kinetica Orbo will indeed turn, seemingly on its own, as long as the stator magnets are hand-held, due to involuntary out-of-phase corrections in Mr. Hand's position while trying to hold the stator still.
    Well, it took me a while to realize your moniker is an anagram.

    This is exactly what was found about the Howard Johnson motor. There were some remarkable demonstrations of that invention which even fooled a "Popular" magazine.

    Do you, Mr. Tesla, think that anyone within the Steorn organization misjudged their demonstration? Or was it known it would fail by the insiders?

    Tks, GC