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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2012
     
    Joshs isn't necessarily disagreeing with Xu Zihan. He's disagreeing with what he believes your interpretation of Zihan to be. That there is some realizable potential for limitless energy.


    That's OK then, because that wasn't my interpretation.

    My interpretation was that it was an unusual and very interesting device that if true needed a very well thought out explanation and not just an off the cuff remark like it just a fridge or heat pump. You can cool a fluid by extracting heat from it and transferring it elsewhere, using normal methods, a LED emitting electromagnetic waves out into a room follows this rule, BUT a LED doing it into an optimised PV designed to help it work without outside electricity, ENCLOSED in an insulated pipe containing the hot fluid so that any waste heat goes back into the fluid so it shouldn't be able to drop the heat of the fluid in any way or produce electricity.

    IF it does either or both it is very interesting indeed and need a lot of explaining.

    I hope the researchers, Parthiban Santhanam and coauthors from MIT are proved right and that they carry out a similar experiment to what I outlined above.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2012
     
    Posted By: TrimJoshs isn't necessarily disagreeing with Xu Zihan. He's disagreeing with what he believes your interpretation of Zihan to be. That there is some realizable potential for limitless energy.


    That's OK then, because that wasn't my interpretation.

    My interpretation was that it was an unusual and very interesting device that if true needed a very well thought out explanation and not just an off the cuff remark like it just a fridge or heat pump. You can cool a fluid by extracting heat from it and transferring it elsewhere, using normal methods, a LED emitting electromagnetic waves out into a room follows this rule,BUTa LED doing it into an optimised PV designed to help it work without outside electricity,ENCLOSEDin an insulated pipe containing the hot fluid so that any waste heat goes back into the fluid so it shouldn't be able to drop the heat of the fluid in any way or produce electricity.

    IFit does either or both it is very interesting indeed and need a lot of explaining.

    I hope the researchers, Parthiban Santhanam and coauthors from MIT are proved right and that they carry out a similar experiment to what I outlined above.
    You are extrapolating your faulty assumptions into the idea that this report can lead to a working PMM. There isn't anything those guys reported that suggests such a thing is possible.
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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2012
     
    Or indeed anything they reported suggests such a thing isn't

    First get their original experiment falsified. And then we can see if an enclosed experiment is possible, it will be interesting if it is.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2012
     
    Posted By: TrimOr indeed anything they reported suggests such a thing isn't


    I thought we went over this burden of proof stuff several hundred times in the past. Was someone not paying attention?
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2012
     
    Posted By: TrimOr indeed anything they reported suggests such a thing isn't

    First get their original experiment falsified. And then we can see if an enclosed experiment is possible, it will be interesting if it is.
    One can repeat their experiment and their results until the cows come home. It does not suggest that the experiment you propose has any chance of succeeding. You have failed to make any logical connection between what they have reported and what you propose.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2012
     
    Posted By: Angus
    Posted By: TrimOr indeed anything they reported suggests such a thing isn't


    I thought we went over this burden of proof stuff several hundred times in the past. Was someone not paying attention?
    Apparently that is so.
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      CommentAuthorE-Man
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2012
     
    Posted By: TrimOr indeed anything they reported suggests such a thing isn't

    What kind of standard of evidence is that?

    Whether you like it or not you appear to be implying that this paper is evidence FOR something. Something apparently beyond the scope of the paper.

    I have a paper on the effects of gamma rays on man-in-the-moon marigolds and unsurprisingly it ALSO does not suggest that whatever you are talking about is possible OR impossible. Does that somehow, in your mind make it evidence for one point or the other?
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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2012
     
    How can you prove anything until such an experiment is done?

    And how can such an experiment be done if so called scientist are sure it won't work?

    Any experimenter will have to have real cojones to go against that ossified lot.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2012
     
    Posted By: TrimHow can you prove anything until such an experiment is done?

    And how can such an experiment be done if so called scientist are sure it won't work?

    Any experimenter will have to have real cojones to go against that ossified lot.


    So do the experiments. Others have. Sometimes they even thought they had the results you seek. But so far that has never turned out to be right.

    You must forgive us for our disinclination to throw good money after bad.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2012
     
    Posted By: TrimHow can you prove anything until such an experiment is done?

    And how can such an experiment be done if so called scientist are sure it won't work?

    Any experimenter will have to have real cojones to go against that ossified lot.
    Welcome the the Trim Memorial Ward of Island Whackado.

    Countless experiments have been done. The Second Law of Thermodynamics has held through every one. You bring no new data to the table that suggests that if yet another experiment is done any new information will be revealed.
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      CommentAuthorE-Man
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: TrimHow can you prove anything until such an experiment is done?

    There is a difference between the following premises:

    i) Z implies X is not just Y
    ii) Z does not imply that X is merely Y

    You talk like you are asserting i) which incites people to respond and when they do you quickly hide behind ii)

    If it's deliberate it's annoying and if it's not you're an idiot for not realizing it. Please choose, post your decision so we can get back to ignoring you.
    • CommentAuthorBigOilRep
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2012
     
    Posted By: TrimHow can you prove anything until such an experiment is done?

    And how can such an experiment be done if so called scientist are sure it won't work?

    Any experimenter will have to have real cojones to go against that ossified lot.

    Evidence, not cojones.

    You have such a faulty understanding of the scientific method.

    Null hypothesis. Null hypothesis. Did I mention null hypothesis?
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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeMay 31st 2012
     
    TR

    Another one for joshs to praise to high heaven.

    Is This the Key to Vastly Better Batteries?
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    • CommentTimeJun 8th 2012 edited
     
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