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    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2018
     
    So how does one say "quad analogue video multiplexer" in Hul'q'umi'num'?
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2018 edited
     
    There's that q again !

    How do you distinguish an object you can see from one you can't with an English article?
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2018
     
    For example? English has lots of adjectives for the unseeable; each has a subtle meaning.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2018
     
    For example "the(1) thing over there" and "the(2) thing over there".

    In Hul'q'umi'num' you know that in case 1 you can see the thing but in case 2 you can't.
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2018 edited
     
    You just explained it. There are lots of languages with odd features, take Finnish or Hungarian noun cases. First Nation's languages in general are case-poor.

    https://wals.info/feature/49A#2/16.6/148.2

    But even simple Spanish has different words for "there": ahi, alli, alla--and they all have slightly different meanings--or none at all, depending on your dialect. It's very confusing to explain the subtleties, unless you grew up with the language.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2018
     
    No argument. My point was simply that these languages are wonderfully alien and complex (at least to me who has only a small few European languages). And it underlines the value of trying to keep them alive.
  1.  
    Posted By: alsetalokinThat I can believe. But what about Gitxsanimaax ?

    I think the market is there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46kCkaifxSg
    Uncanny similarity to Welsh.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2018 edited
     
    Welsh has lateral consonants?

    Come to think of it, I guess it does - "ll" for example.
  2.  
    Then of course you have the various subdeclensions of the articles, to express ideas such as
    --can't see it because it is outside and you're inside
    --can't see it because it's snowing hard
    --can't see it because it's under water
    --can't see it because you've had too much fermented seal milk
    and so on. Each subdeclension could be indicated in speech by a subtle change in place or manner of articulation of the major consonants of the spoken article.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2018
     
    Some languages seem almost that weird.
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2018
     
    The point of "weird languages" to me is being able to express a concept that no other language can.

    English, of course, is a debtor language; if there exists a concept in a foreign tongue that can't be precisely expressed using the existing lexicon, English simply steals borrows the foreign word.

    Although I've yet to see where English has borrowed the sense of Danish (and other Scandinavian tongues) "d√łgn", unless you want to count the spelling-bee-word "nychthemeron".
  3.  
    Language shapes thought, hence limiting or guiding it in some way? Or vice-versa? Or can every language express every concept?

    Whorf, is that you?
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2018 edited
     
    In other words, is there such a concept as a "Turing-complete" human language? What would the "Brainf*ck" of human languages be?
  4.  
    Hungarian, probably. With Turkish tenses.
    •  
      CommentAuthoralsetalokin
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2018 edited
     
    Samuel R. Delany liked Basque.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2018
     
    Haida with Korean spelling.
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2018 edited
     
    I think you all miss the point of my question. Brainf*ck is notable for its extremely simply grammar; there are only eight operations:

    +-<> [ ],.

    That's it; essentially implements a Turing machine. So a language with only 8 words.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2018 edited
     
    Oh. It's really a thing then.

    You can implenent a Turing machine with two words: 0 and 1, Shirley. Or maybe those count as letters.
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2018
     
    Not unless you assign meanings to 1 and 0. If you assign meanings to combinations of those, you're creating new words.

    The 8 symbols in Brainf*ck are verbs--nouns, if you will, are created with them.

    There are also one-instruction computers (OISC):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_instruction_set_computer

    My question boils down to "How simple can a grammar be to express the range of human ideas?"
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2018
     
    Right. Just refreshed myself on these things at the Wiki-fount. (And sent them a donation to keep my Wiki habit going.)

    I am uncomfortable with the idea that a programming language is a language in the human language sense, any more than is mathematics or music. The term "language" is metaphoric for these.

    Shirley.

    (We've done this one before.)