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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2019 edited
     
  1.  
    Hmm. Water is mildly polar and the results are similarly mild. Hardly too surprising.
    • CommentAuthorloreman
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: AngusMagnetic effects in water
    .

    That’s proper use mark you.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanHmm. Water is mildly polar and the results are similarly mild. Hardly too surprising.


    Some of these effects I find +very+ surprising. The change in viscosity AFTER going past a magnet, for example.

    The polarity of the water molecule refers to its electric dipole because of the bond angle between the O and the Hs. Any magnetic dipole would be from the net spins, so I guess it has several possibilities.
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      CommentAuthoralsetalokin
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2019 edited
     
    Is oxygen still paramagnetic when it is bound in a water molecule? What effect does all that hydrogen bonding have in larger collections of water molecules forming a liquid?
  2.  
    Now that I've read the paper I have to say that I don't believe it.

    All tested samples except TW circulated at the flow rate of 0.8 m/s for 5 min in MWD-1 magnetizing equipment. The schematic diagram of magnetization is shown in Fig. 2.
    (my bolding)




    It appears to me that instead of using a control sample that was treated exactly the same as the "MW" samples except being exposed to the magnetic field of the "magnetizing equipment", they did not run the tap water through the equipment at all. The experimental protocol is extremely suspect.

    Then there is the fact that some of the effect sizes are just too large to be believable. Small sample sizes magnify the effects of noise in experimental data of this kind.
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      CommentAuthorgoatcheez
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2019
     
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2019 edited
     
    My reaction is the same as al's. However I have been in contact with people testing related stuff and looked at their equipment and I am reluctantly forced to the conclusion that something strange happens. Whether it is Steorn- strange or not I can't tell.

    That said, water is one weird liquid.
    •  
      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2019
     
    Posted By: goatcheezAnomalous Properties of Water


    Thanks interesting.
    •  
      CommentAuthorgoatcheez
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2019
     
    You're welcome. I got it from Grimer who knew the author.
    •  
      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2019
     
    Great so Frank is still alive, he must be even older than Angus, (is that possible???).
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2019
     
    Posted By: TrimGreat so Frank is still alive, he must be even older than Angus, (is that possible???).


    I fervently hope so!
  3.  
    Let one group of experimenters take 20 samples of "tap water" and run them all through the "magnetizing apparatus" but with the magnets themselves present for only 10 of the samples. (If this is properly done even the sequence is randomized. Call unmagnetized "Heads" and magnetized "Tails" and flip a coin before running the sample, or something like that.) Submit all 20 samples to the other group of experimenters "blind" (that is, at this stage nobody knows which of the 20 samples are "magnetized" and which are not) and let them run their tests on the samples.

    Can the second group properly sort the 20 samples into "magnetized" and "not-magnetized" piles correctly?

    I'll bet they can't.
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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2019
     
    Posted By: Angus
    Posted By: TrimGreat so Frank is still alive, he must be even older than Angus, (is that possible???).


    I fervently hope so!


    So do I.
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2019
     
    Early proton-precession magnetometers used plain old water as their working liquid. Wrap a coil of wire around a bottle, give the bottle a magnetic jolt and listen for the precession. Goes back to the early 1960s at least.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2019
     
    That is an understandable process. MRI uses it now. It needs a large timevarying field and sensitive rf instruments to detect it the precession.

    Altering the boiling point with a NdCo magnet is another class of thing to my way of thinking.
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      CommentAuthoralsetalokin
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2019 edited
     
    Indeed. And having the effects persist after the field is removed seems almost miraculous to me.

    But back to the experimental protocol... would one not want to use completely pure water, or at least water as pure as possible, for one set of control samples? If the reported effects are really due to the action of a magnetic field on water, one might actually want to find out if (a) magnetic fields are really involved, hence running real samples through null apparatus; and (b) water is involved, hence running null samples through real apparatus; et cetera.

    Maybe there is an impurity in the TW they used that is affected by the magnetic field. Perhaps it precipitates out and sticks inside the magnetizing apparatus. We know that melting and boiling points and other physical parameters of nearly pure substances can vary according to the degree of impurity. Perhaps the "magnetizing apparatus" is actually acting as a filter/purifier and the effects are not due to "magnetized water" at all but are related to the amount of impurity present in the samples. The experimental protocol should be designed to rule _out_ alternative explanations such as this, rather than ruling in the experimenters' favourite hypotheses.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2019
     
    Posted By: alsetalokinPerhaps the "magnetizing apparatus" is actually acting as a filter/purifier and the effects are not due to "magnetized water" at all but are related to the amount of impurity present in the samples.


    That is certainly one possibilty. From what I have seen it isn't all that is going on.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2019
     
    I noticed that it claims biologically significant changes in water for 60Hz alternating magnetic fields at 50 microTesla field strength. That is about the level of the earth's field.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2019 edited
     
    If you think all that's crazy take a look at this US Patent from 2001. It claims that you can magnetically treat a jar of water and then put it on a shelf next to an untreated jar, and the second jar will acquire whatever benefits the treatment is supposed to give.

    I mean seriously...


    ...systems are described that deliver electromagnetic energy into a target solution for modifying its characteristics by first treating a primary solution, e.g., water or any hydrogen bonded liquid, and then causing the primary solution to be proximate to the target solution. The treated secondary solution improves the performance of various processes including: scale control in water heater systems, printing ink treatment, de-inking of pulp paper, etc.