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      CommentAuthoraber0der
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2020
     
    I'm somewhat surprised, befuddled and almost meschugge hearing these ideological tropes over and over again. Most 3rd graders are able to design a system that synergetically unites capitalism(market or demand driven economy) and socialism(not having codified assholery as the driving force for societal development).
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      CommentAuthorDuracell
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2020 edited
     
    Posted By: Angus
    Posted By: DuracellCapitalism is what has brought our planet to its current catastrophic state.


    I agree, with a caveat. There is a chicken-and-egg problem here with the growth of population. Does the increase in the number of consumers drive capitalism, or vice versa? The fact that most of the growth is dirt poor doesn't resolve this, because even the poor consume ever more and more per capita.
    Yes, it is meaningless to look at population without also looking at consumption (in its entirety including full carbon footprint etc.) and the evidence here is clear: The wealthier the population, the greater the consumption and there is also massive inequality in how the adverse impacts and consequences of that consumption are disproportionately distributed to poorer populations.

    Capitalism creates and devours underclasses. Capitalism creates a tiny number of masters with many servants, a small subset of privileged elites who exploit vast swathes of downtrodden masses.
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      CommentAuthorDuracell
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2020
     
    Posted By: aber0derCapitalism and socialism come in many flavours.
    At a planetary level, they all merge into one single mass extinction flavour ...
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      CommentAuthorDuracell
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2020
     
    Posted By: aber0derI'm somewhat surprised, befuddled and almost meschugge hearing these ideological tropes over and over again. Most 3rd graders are able to design a system that synergetically unites capitalism(market or demand driven economy) and socialism(not having codified assholery as the driving force for societal development).
    Nearly every what is might well have started as a what if, but not every what if becomes a what is ...
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      CommentAuthoraber0der
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2020
     
    Genau! And what ever we decide to do, it falls into one or the other category, with variable granularity.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2020 edited
     
    Posted By: aber0derCapitalism and socialism come in many flavours.

    Yeah. Like licorice.
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    I'm dismayed by the carelessness with which lithium has been/is being mined. Otherwise, I learned nothing new.
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      CommentAuthoraber0der
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2020
     
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanI'm dismayed by the carelessness with which lithium has been/is being mined. Otherwise, I learned nothing new.

    Mistplaced humility.
    • CommentAuthorBigOilRep
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2020
     
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanTesla’s mission isto accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy.

    Changing the world, one luxury sedan at a time.

    Tesla's "mission" is the same as every other publicly owned corporation on the planet: to maximise return on investment to their shareholders. That is the only mission they are legally allowed to have in fact. Everything else is market position and PR.
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      CommentAuthorping1400
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2020
     
    Posted By: aber0derI'm somewhat surprised, befuddled and almost meschugge hearing these ideological tropes over and over again. Most 3rd graders are able to design a system that synergetically unites capitalism(market or demand driven economy) and socialism(not having codified assholery as the driving force for societal development).


    +1
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    Think of society as a huge amoeboid organism, plopped down into resource space and given rein to expand. At the edges it must be capitalistic, to consume, develop, grow, expand, turn resources (the environment of our organism) into profit (our organism grows, improves, ramifies). But inwards from the expanding fractal edges, a more steady state is called for: socialism, even distribution of processed resources coming in from the hinteredges, maintenance of the status quo for as much of the interior organism as possible. Socialism at the core, for homeostatic survival of the organism. Capitalism at the edges, for expansion into resource space and growth. Frontiers require capitalism, Ponzinomics, even slavery, whereas old-growth established societies inevitably tend towards necessary socialism, redistribution, even central planning.
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      CommentAuthorDuracell
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2020 edited
     
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanI'm dismayed by the carelessness with which lithium has been/is being mined. Otherwise, I learned nothing new.
    Great, now look at the rest of the heavy industrial processes involved, such as smelting and the processes, energy and resources used to create solar panels, and the vast amounts of concrete being poured, and the enormous amounts of energy being consumed, pollution created and resources depleted during the entire manufacturing and distribution process, and then remind me again afterwards how increased growth and wealth being generated by Tesla off the back of increased consumption of their large and expensive battery powered cars is somehow meant to be "socially responsible" and saving the planet rather than just merely helping Tesla to grow and succeed and Elon Musk to become even wealthier, thereby merely adding fuel to capitalism's already out of control, blazing, planetary resource consuming and environmentally polluting inferno.
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      CommentAuthorDuracell
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2020
     
    Posted By: alsetalokinThink of society as a huge amoeboid organism, plopped down into resource space and given rein to expand. At the edges it must be capitalistic, to consume, develop, grow, expand, turn resources (the environment of our organism) into profit (our organism grows, improves, ramifies). But inwards from the expanding fractal edges, a more steady state is called for: socialism, even distribution of processed resources coming in from the hinteredges, maintenance of the status quo for as much of the interior organism as possible. Socialism at the core, for homeostatic survival of the organism. Capitalism at the edges, for expansion into resource space and growth. Frontiers require capitalism, Ponzinomics, even slavery, whereas old-growth established societies inevitably tend towards necessary socialism, redistribution, even central planning.
    Yes, but the edges at the frontiers appear to have run into planetary limits and seem to be reaching the limits of their expansion into the available resource spaces. Now, what happens to the organism next?
    • CommentAuthorBigOilRep
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2020
     
    Posted By: Duracell
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanI'm dismayed by the carelessness with which lithium has been/is being mined. Otherwise, I learned nothing new.
    Great, now look at the rest of the heavy industrial processes involved, such as smelting and the processes, energy and resources used to create solar panels, and the vast amounts of concrete being poured, and the enormous amounts of energy being consumed, pollution created and resources depleted during the entire manufacturing and distribution process, and then remind me again afterwards how increased growth and wealth being generated by Tesla off the back of increased consumption of their large and expensive battery powered cars is somehow meant to be "socially responsible" and saving the planet rather than just merely helping Tesla to grow and succeed and Elon Musk to become even wealthier, thereby merely adding fuel to capitalism's already out of control, blazing, planetary resource consuming and environmentally polluting inferno.

    Yeah, but have you ever put a man into space, bro?
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    Posted By: DuracellNow, what happens to the organism next?


    It begins to eat itself at the edges, and begins to rot from the centre outwards since pristine nourishment can't get to the massed nucleus.

    And his name is Trump.
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  5.  
    The Ex-Tesla Executive Electrifying Mass Transit
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMMAD3oSH6o
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2020
     
    Electric buses? You mean like the overhead trolley buses that I rode as a kid? The ones that populated a good section of most major cities in the earlier part of the 20th century? Guess we got that one wrong...
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      CommentAuthoralsetalokin
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2020 edited
     
    You could even put them underground, in tunnels, and use the roadway itself to deliver electric power to the bus. You might even find it convenient to daisy-chain several buses together, since there would be no cross-traffic to worry about.
  6.  
    Posted By: AsterixYou mean like the overhead trolley buses that I rode as a kid?
    My first thought also. When I left Munich in 1986 they were still going strong. But the overhead wires are gone in this latest incarnation.

    In the 50s and 60s we had electric milk carts bringing glass bottles daily.