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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2020
     
    It would be irrational to imagine I need direct experience of everything I might have an opinion about - being eaten by a tiger, for example.
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    Specious argument in this context
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      CommentAuthoroak
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2020
     
    I did my share of marijuana and psychedelics in my late teens and 20s, including psilocybin mushrooms. The older I get, the less interested I am in altering my consciousness in any way by artificial means.

    Well, other than with an occasional snifter of decent scotch, maybe.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2020 edited
     
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanSpecious argument in this context


    Specious = superficially plausible, but actually wrong.

    Don't just say I'm wrong without evidence. That's Trumpianism.

    I'm with oak, there.
    • CommentAuthorloreman
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2020
     
    Yes, I’ve become rather attached to my consciousness
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    Just my opinion. You can't comment on psychedelics with any weight without having sampled the goods.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2020
     
    And by the same argument a whore can't comment with any weight on the benefits of virginity and vice versa.
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      CommentAuthorgoatcheez
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2020
     
    Google 'micro-dosing'.
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    Ludicrous arguments Angus.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2020
     
    I agree. After all it was your argument I was illustrating.

    Anent microdosing - I am unlikely to be impressed if the only measure is subjective.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2020
     
    I’ll try being less arch.

    It has been noted for a long time that people who take a mind altering substance for fun very often become proselytisers for it. Timothy Leary is a case in point. For that reason, as a start, I am extremely doubtful of claims of wonderful things consequential to mind altering chemistry if they originate from the enthusiastic users.

    When tests are run by others there is the problem that the desired effects are detectable only subjectively. Somebody will have to figure out a reliable way to measure subjective experience and explain it to me. Until then, it’s not my problem. I go with what I can actually detect.

    But there are often effects that are easily noticeable, usually in the category of being out of contact with what is actually happening in the real world. In its milder forms this sort of thing looks like stupidity. In more intense forms, like insanity. Hence my comment about the “Zen and the art of chemically assisted stupidity”. I was being generous.

    I have yet to find any complex system that works better if you introduce extraneous influences it wasn’t built to accommodate. There is no reason a priori to think that mushroom juice in the brain does anything but mess up your brain, possibly with subjectively entertaining results, but hardly likely with any beneficial effect on how it gets on with reality. Good scotch tastes better and you can get just as stupid.

    I’m hardly unfamiliar with these concepts. My own mother-in-law was a pioneer in the use of LSD to treat psychoses in the UK back in the ‘60s. As everybody now recognises, that was a stupid idea. Some kind of tarted up version of sympathetic magic, or mental homeopathy.

    So if you like the colours and the music, by all means enjoy your psychotropic mushrooms. There is no more need to bother the rest of us with it than there is for oak to start a thread about the benefits of good Scotch.
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    Posted By: AngusMy own mother-in-law was a pioneer in the use of LSD to treat psychoses in the UK back in the ‘60s. As everybody now recognises, that was a stupid idea.
    I am no expert in the state of the art here, but I do see little reports from time to time about experimental therapies with LSD. So I do question that "everybody now recognises" part.

    In any case, your speculation about the effects simply reinforces my intuition that you have not tried it.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2020
     
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanIn any case, your speculation about the effects simply reinforces my intuition that you have not tried it.


    I made no speculation. I said that the desired effects are subjective and the externally observable ones amount to impairment. If you disagree, you could stand up and say so. Or perhaps with the smugness of the self-appointed expert you took my comment about colours and music literally.

    No doubt there are somebodies who keep trying sympathetic magic in psychiatry. Nothing else seems to work either.
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    There are many experiences in life for which merely discussing said experiences is a pale shadow of the experience itself.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2020
     
    Absolutely true, but not what we are talking about. The benefit of an experience is not the same thing as its intensity.
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2020
     
    Posted By: oakI did my share of marijuana and psychedelics in my late teens and 20s, including psilocybin mushrooms. The older I get, the less interested I am in altering my consciousness in any way by artificial means.


    At my age, I'm more concerned about hanging onto what consciousness I have.
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      CommentAuthorgoatcheez
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2020
     
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      CommentAuthorgoatcheez
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2020
     
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      CommentAuthorgoatcheez
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2020
     
    There’s No Good Evidence That Psychedelics Can Change Your Politics or Religion
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/theres-no-good-evidence-that-psychedelics-can-change-your-politics-or-religion/
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      CommentAuthorgoatcheez
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2020