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    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2019
     
    Obviously, the answer is that everyone needs to move to Norway.
    • CommentAuthorloreman
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2019
     
    Where you can play golf at 2.00 am in the summer and then drink yourself to death in the winter.
    • CommentAuthorkorkskrew
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2019
     
    Posted By: ping1400Yes, shame on the Dutch. Late as always, the curse of having abundant free natural gas for over 50 years.

    But we’re getting there, after Germany the Dutch installed the largest amount of new solar in Europe last year. This year will be even much more.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_energy_in_the_European_Union

    And about my Tesla. I have over 90m2 of panels at home, charging and driving 100% renewable.
    I'm curious at what latitude you live? I've been debating investing in solar, and Tesla's recent changes have made it pretty compelling to at least try it.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2019
     
    Posted By: ping1400I hardly use the air heater, only when I have passengers.


    You don't live in our climate. Nor the balmy seaside Norwegian one.
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      CommentAuthorping1400
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: korkskrewI'm curious at what latitude you live? I've been debating investing in solar, and Tesla's recent changes have made it pretty compelling to at least try it.


    According to the global solar map, even the northern parts of Canada have much more sun hours than The Netherlands or Germany. More comparable with South Europe. The US and Canada are like solar power paradise.

    https://globalsolaratlas.info/?c=-8.754795,-16.561971,2
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2019
     
    Sun; yes. I was thinking temperature.
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      CommentAuthorping1400
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2019
     
    I honestly can say my Tesla Model S is the best winter car I've had.

    Pros:

    Never worry about it "starting" (regardless of it being plugged in). At our family Christmas get together, 3 others couldn't start their car that day... Nice not having that worry!

    Near instant heat - when it's -30 outside, it's nice to have warm air blowing on you right when you get into the car

    Ability to remotely heat car - not much different than remote start, but coupled with the near instant heat, it doesn't take long to warm the interior right up and even melt the windows. This can be done from anywhere as it doesn't rely on radio waves like most car starters.

    Related to both above points, a gas car is so inefficient at warning itself until you start driving. Not having to stand outside to fill with gas. My wife's gas car (until Model 3) ran out of fuel one time, because she didn't want to deal with the elements and tried to push it to make it home.

    Great AWD system - no mechanical pieces to get in the way/slow things down

    Even without AWD, my local friends tell me their RWD Tesla's do great

    Tesla specific: autopilot - works "most" of the winter, and is so nice when traffic is backed up and slow due to an accident (put winter tires on people!)

    Cons:

    Range decrease - while the car isn't affected by wind chill, our temps have gotten very cold regardless. At -30 I'm losing about 40% of my range. I still have plenty for around town, or to travel where Superchargers exist, but doing road trips north or to rural Alberta would be a challenge right now. Tesla specific: the folding mirrors don't like our winters, they get stuck very easily.


    From some Canadian on Reddit
    https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/7ngdxr/tesla_in_the_canadian_cold/
    • CommentAuthorBigOilRep
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2019
     
    Posted By: DuracellWhat is Norway doing differently?

    Big corporate subsidies.
    •  
      CommentAuthorping1400
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2019
     
    Posted By: BigOilRep
    Posted By: DuracellWhat is Norway doing differently?

    Big corporate subsidies.


    More the opposite, make the pollutor pay.
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2019
     
    Let's hear how a Tesla fares in Phoenix or similar hot place. I recall that Nissan had to back out of its Leaf battery warranty because the heat coming off the road surface was killing the things.
    • CommentAuthorBigOilRep
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2019
     
    Posted By: ping1400More the opposite, make the pollutor pay.

    If you buy a new Tesla, then you are polluting more than if you didn't own a car, yet the Norwegian taxpayer still gives a hand out to a publically traded corporation for this consumerism.

    Or perhaps it is a discount for the wealthy to buy a luxury second car? The majority of Norwegians taking advantage of the subsidy are buying them as a second car and hanging on to their ICE. And if you're buying a luxury car like a Tesla, you are by definition rich (or in debt I suppose).

    I'm not saying the policy is wrong, but it's not a straightforward decision. In the UK I'd much prefer any subsidies to go into the bus network, which is expensive and pretty awful outside of London. I guess buses aren't all scifi and sexy though, and you might face the horror of sitting next to a poor person.
  1.  
    The only one I've seen around here was parked at an expired parking meter.
  2.  
    Posted By: ping1400
    Posted By: BigOilRep
    Posted By: DuracellWhat is Norway doing differently?

    Big corporate subsidies.


    More the opposite, make the pollutor pay.
    Yes, although I believe both the policy to punish ICE vehicles and the policy to encourage EVs are in place in Norway, and both are government-driven.
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      CommentAuthoraber0der
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2019
     
    We have pretty good public transport here (.de), but Norway is probably different.
    One of my neighbors drives a Tesla. Too silent for my taste.
    • CommentAuthorBigOilRep
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2019
     
    Posted By: aber0derWe have pretty good public transport here (.de), but Norway is probably different.
    One of my neighbors drives a Tesla. Too silent for my taste.

    They actually make a decent amount of noise when moving which, as a cyclist, I consider a good thing.
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2019 edited
     
    Well, perhaps there is a historic parallel.

    Remember the oil embargo of 1973? It was really bad in California. One unintended consequence was the sudden popularity of smaller Japanese-made cars. Prospective Toyota buyers had to face a waiting list that ran for months.

    Detroit was completely unprepared for it and continued to stick with their road yachts. My late father, who was a retired steelworker, had never considered buying a non-US-made car. But on a vacation trip, he had the opportunity to drive a rental Toyota--and that sold him. He never again owned a domestic car.

    Thus began the fall of the US auto industry; once a trendsetter and innovator, now forced to ride in the back seat.

    If this Iran-Saudi affair blows up, that could certainly drive more to adopt EVs--and that will be the real push for adoption by the public in general.

    Right now, the EV market is so small that states and the Fed haven't even figured out how to find other avenues of highway infrastructure funding, other than fuel taxes.
  3.  
    Posted By: AsterixRight now, the EV market is so small


    https://insideevs.com/news/368729/ev-sales-scorecard-august-2019/
    200K total US EVs sold in 2019 so far.
    https://www.marklines.com/en/statistics/flash_sales/salesfig_usa_2019
    ~11.4M total US cars sold in 2019 so far.

    So EVs currently about 1.8% of total.
    •  
      CommentAuthoralsetalokin
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2019 edited
     
    And as typical, they are sold to an upscale demographic. So, as typical, the people who can afford EVs are driving "for free" on the roads that the owners of gas guzzlers paid for in taxes at the gas pump.
    •  
      CommentAuthoraber0der
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2019
     
    Posted By: alsetalokinAnd as typical, they are sold to an upscale demographic. So, as typical, the people who can afford EVs are driving "for free" on the roads that the owners of gas guzzlers paid for in taxes at the gas pump.


    This universal truth is one of the more than eleven achilles heels of our governmental systems. The same problem also enfolds the media and to some extent other public and private institutions.
  4.  
    Because the upscale demographic pay less taxes? Oh, wait...