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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2021
     
    Posted By: AngusCalm before the storm - there will be. The system also needs a few hundred GigaWatt-months of storage.


    Like this?

    Has Henrik Stiesdal nailed yet another market disruptor? - YouTube

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6tEkRRec3NE
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      CommentAuthoraber0der
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2021
     
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanThe trick is to treat your populace like infants. After a while they begin to develop infantile traits, and exploitation becomes far easier. This explains 70 years without national health care and the inability to promptly deal with treasonous con-men.

    The concerted sabotage of the public education system and public media also helps a lot.
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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2021
     
    And replacing them with Chinese scientists.
    • CommentAuthorBigOilRep
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2021
     
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanThis explains 70 years without national health care

    They had national health care 70 years ago?
    • CommentAuthorBigOilRep
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2021
     
    Posted By: Angus. The system also needs a few hundred GigaWatt-months of storage.

    That's the elephant in the room. And I guess once you price in a storage network in then renewables don't look quite so competitive, at least in the short term, as the majority of the cost will be up front investment.

    It seems to be hard to find out any definitive costs for doing this in the UK (the answer appears to be "it's complicated"), though it looks like it will take a while even with big money being chucked in. I'd also imagine that if everyone tries to to do this at once as well as electrifying their transport networks, we would face a massive crunch on materials and production capacity.

    Well, best crack on!
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2021 edited
     
    It's easiest when the storage facility is the same one as the generating facility, cf hydroelectric dams.

    There are various thermal methods and compressible gas methods that sort of work for medium storage capacity. For large capacity you need something very cheap that can be stored in large volume. Pumped storage seems to be about the only practical solution at the moment, but you need the space to put a large lake at a high altitude and as you say, the cost is up front. And then there are flow-batteries. Maybe...

    ETA The Dutch had an idea for damming the sea back from a space near the coast and storing the energy by pumping out the water - reverse pumped storage but no need to hollow out a cave in the ground as has also been proposed. To get the energy back you let the water flow in again through the turbine. I don't know what happened to that - it seems to have disappeared. Up front cost for the dam, I suppose (or the cave.)
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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2021
     
    Wow nuclear power is much safer than I thought.

    Why I changed my mind about nuclear power | Michael Shellenberger | TEDxBerlin - YouTube

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ciStnd9Y2ak&t=717s On
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      CommentAuthorping1400
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2021
     
    Posted By: BigOilRep
    Posted By: Angus. The system also needs a few hundred GigaWatt-months of storage.

    That's the elephant in the room. And I guess once you price in a storage network in then renewables don't look quite so competitive, at least in the short term, as the majority of the cost will be up front investment.

    Well, best crack on!


    We already have that system operational for decades. It’s called seasonal natural gas storage.
    All transmission, intercontinental transport, storage, conversion and downstream infrastructure is there.

    Just add the component where renewable power is used to produce green methane from water and co2. Best do this is countries with plenty solar. The next gen Desertec.
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      CommentAuthorping1400
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2021
     
    Posted By: TrimWow nuclear power is much safer than I thought.

    Why I changed my mind about nuclear power | Michael Shellenberger | TEDxBerlin - YouTube

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ciStnd9Y2ak&t=717sOn


    As engineer I feel offended by some sock puppet telling I am afraid for nuclear power. I’ve been in many nuclear plants and it’s the most primitive and simple technology imaginable.

    It is just too damn expensive. It can no longer compete with renewables. Even the IEA admits that since last year.
    • CommentAuthorBigOilRep
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2021
     
    Posted By: ping1400We already have that system operational for decades. It’s called seasonal natural gas storage.
    All transmission, intercontinental transport, storage, conversion and downstream infrastructure is there.

    Just add the component where renewable power is used to produce green methane from water and co2. Best do this is countries with plenty solar. The next gen Desertec.

    I'm not really clear about any of that. What kind of energy storage network would the UK need to build to go 100% renewable and what do you reckon it would cost. Realistically.
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      CommentAuthorping1400
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2021
     
    •  
      CommentAuthorping1400
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2021
     
    Posted By: BigOilRep
    Posted By: ping1400We already have that system operational for decades. It’s called seasonal natural gas storage.
    All transmission, intercontinental transport, storage, conversion and downstream infrastructure is there.

    Just add the component where renewable power is used to produce green methane from water and co2. Best do this is countries with plenty solar. The next gen Desertec.

    I'm not really clear about any of that. What kind of energy storage network would the UK need to build to go 100% renewable and what do you reckon it would cost. Realistically.


    Gas storages are all over Europe, in The Netherlands storage capacity is enough for winter. In addition large LNG terminals are operational, for example in Rotterdam. The infrastructure is already there, except most of the gas is provided by Russia and Middle East.

    Why produce renewable energy in the UK? It is much more efficient to have solar panels in Morocco or South of Spain.
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2021
     
    License granted for Chernobyl decomissioning

    That one ought to be interesting.
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2021
     
    More cock-ups at Fukushima

    No matter how good our technology is, there's always humans to f*ck it up:

    Officials at Japan’s wrecked Fukushima nuclear power plant have acknowledged they neglected to investigate the cause of faulty exhaust filters that are key to preventing radioactive pollution, after being forced to replace them twice.
    • CommentAuthorBigOilRep
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2021
     
    Posted By: ping1400
    Gas storages are all over Europe, in The Netherlands storage capacity is enough for winter. In addition large LNG terminals are operational, for example in Rotterdam. The infrastructure is already there, except most of the gas is provided by Russia and Middle East.

    I was referring to going 100% renewable - not just burning Russian gas when the wind turbines aren't turning or the sun doesn't shine.


    Why produce renewable energy in the UK? It is much more efficient to have solar panels in Morocco or South of Spain.

    Energy security for one thing. What happens if we fall out with Morocco, or a civil war breaks out and the the solar energy fields get blown up? We also have plenty of wind power potential - at it's peak last year it was supplying 25% of our mix. Useless when the wind stops however, therefore the need for energy storage.

    Anyway, this relies on places like Spain and Morocco actually producing enough power to export in significant amounts. Spain only produces 6% of it's own power mix from solar - seems a long way off from being a major exporter.
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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2021
     
    Why is electricity cheaper in France then Germany?
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      CommentAuthorping1400
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2021
     
    Posted By: TrimWhy is electricity cheaper in France then Germany?


    No it is not. It used to be in the past maybe, but even in early 2000’s German power was cheaper.
    Currently we run a market coupling mechanism, where power is equal priced for most of west europe.
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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2021
     
    Modular Nuclear Reactors - Limitless Clean Energy Future? - YouTube

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ_b8y0LbMw
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      CommentAuthorping1400
    • CommentTimeSep 24th 2021
     
    Posted By: TrimWhy is electricity cheaper in France then Germany?


    https://www.epexspot.com/en

    In fact like today, the DE baseload spotmarket price is about the cheapest in west europe, FR is almost 40% more expensive.
    DE = 109 Euro/MWh
    FR = 148 Euro/MWh

    The nuclear countries like FR and BE are the most expensive in Eirope.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeSep 24th 2021
     
    Ouch! The residential rate here is about 93€ per MWh, and that's the highr one they charge for high usage.