Vanilla 1.1.9 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

    •  
      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2011 edited
     
    •  
      CommentAuthorLoonyman
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2011 edited
     
    The paper....

    http://journalofcosmology.com/Life100.html

    Exciting stuff. I'm just a bit dubious about the whole "review by jury" system, but let's hope it's a bit more
    Transparent than Steorns!!
    •  
      CommentAuthorlegendre
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2011
     
    Interesting prospects to be sure, but needs to be approached with skepticism.

    Certainly looking forward to the review / analysis.
    •  
      CommentAuthorLoonyman
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2011 edited
     
    After a read of the paper, it seems better than I thought, of course I am no expert in microbiology, however the facts that this is from a respected NASA scientist, and they have released the paper to the whole scientific community, where every relevant expert will be trying to pick it to pieces, seem like green flags to me....



    "3.2 Images and EDS Spectra of Filaments in the Orgueil CI1 Carbonaceous Meteorite. Figure 2.a. is a low magnification (1000X) Secondary Electron Detector (SED) FESEM image of freshly fractured fragment of the Orgueil CI1 meteorite that is densely populated with several different types of embedded filaments and electron transparent sheaths. Even though the field of view shown of this image is very small (~120 μm wide) a wide variety of diverse filamentous microstructures are present.."

    It also fits with my personal theory that everywhere it can, life will... so I like it!!!!
    • CommentAuthortinker
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2011 edited
     
    Are we sure that this meteorite is not made from fossil cheese? Perhaps from the moon? Or even from some hapless teenager's shelf in the fridge?
    •  
      CommentAuthorDuracell
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2011
     
    Jesus did it (for the lulz of course)!
    •  
      CommentAuthorLoonyman
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2011
     
    http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/03/05/6198177-life-in-meteorites-study-stirs-debate


    a good breakdown of the story with some educated critique... I have only just started reading it, in fits and starts due to sharing the PC with my Son this morning.... but it is the best I have found so far...
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2011
     
    Posted By: Loonymanhttp://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/03/05/6198177-life-in-meteorites-study-stirs-debate


    a good breakdown of the story with some educated critique... I have only just started reading it, in fits and starts due to sharing the PC with my Son this morning.... but it is the best I have found so far...
    gRant's ancestors had to come from someplace.
    •  
      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2011
     
    Well in the unlikely event that he is right this 'discovery' is as important a discovering that the earth is not the centre of the universe.
    But if the universe is 'teeming with life' where on earth is everyone or everything?
    •  
      CommentAuthorLoonyman
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2011
     
    a little bit of background( Aug. 2010 ) on the current story.. admittedly from a slightly biased source, but the basic info is sound ( I am loving this story :-D )

    http://www.panspermia.org/hoover4.htm
    •  
      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2011 edited
     
    Back to Fred Hoyle and Chandra Wickramasinghe

    They went further and said diseases come from outer space as well and that evolution is the result of an infux of viruses arriving from outer space.

    Hoyle compared the random emergence of even the simplest cell to the likelihood that "a tornado sweeping through a junk-yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein." Hoyle also compared the chance of obtaining even a single functioning protein by chance combination of amino acids to a solar system full of blind men solving Rubik's Cube simultaneously.
    •  
      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2011
     
    Well in the unlikely event that he is right this 'discovery' is as important a discovering that the earth is not the centre of the universe.
    Has anyone actually said that --other than flat Earth believers?
    •  
      CommentAuthorlegendre
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2011
     
    Falsifying the terracentric universe model would seem trivial compared to the discovery of extraterrestrial life.
  1.  
    Considering the type of meteorite and its provenance, I'd say that extreme measures must be taken to rule out terrestrial contamination.

    That "life" stuff is pretty hard to keep out; it gets in everything and eats just about anything. So a frangible meteorite fragment that's been kicking around labs and museums for a hundred and fifty years, after falling into who knows what cesspool of Earthly life.... well, let's just say that the shapes are interesting, and look remarkably like Earth-type organic remains or casts thereof.
    •  
      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2011
     
    That's what I think as well.
    •  
      CommentAuthorlegendre
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2011
     
    @Al

    Re: Mundane, terrestrial origins - Did you read the paper?
    •  
      CommentAuthorLoonyman
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2011
     
    Obviously not, because it seems that terrestrial origins for the remements are pretty logically excluded to me... I shall wait for some peer review before doing any dancing on tables, but I have been looking at this guys work back to 1997 today, and he has release 3 or 4 papers in which his theories have never been convincingly falsified, only had doubt thrown upon, he has gone back, worked some more and returned.... And it seems to me that this time
    He has all his bases covered ( this is an example of real Science in action, where are you 007? And are you taking notes GrantH?) The guy has always firmly believed that there is a fossil record of bacteria in meteorites, I hope, but do not yet believe he is right, however he is going about his work in exactly the right way... Make your hypothesis, state your evidence, wait for the rebuttal and then place your argument again, answering your critics and refining you procedures..... Good work I say!!!
    •  
      CommentAuthorLoonyman
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2011
     
    Posted By: alsetalokinConsidering the type of meteorite and its provenance, I'd say that extreme measures must be taken to rule out terrestrial contamination.

    That "life" stuff is pretty hard to keep out; it gets in everything and eats just about anything. So a frangible meteorite fragment that's been kicking around labs and museums for a hundred and fifty years, after falling into who knows what cesspool of Earthly life.... well, let's just say that the shapes are interesting, and look remarkably like Earth-type organic remains or casts thereof.



    Everything you have just mentioned is addressed in the paper.. I know you don't believe in widespread life in the universe, however read with an open mind.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2011
     
    Posted By: Loonyman
    Posted By: alsetalokinConsidering the type of meteorite and its provenance, I'd say that extreme measures must be taken to rule out terrestrial contamination.

    That "life" stuff is pretty hard to keep out; it gets in everything and eats just about anything. So a frangible meteorite fragment that's been kicking around labs and museums for a hundred and fifty years, after falling into who knows what cesspool of Earthly life.... well, let's just say that the shapes are interesting, and look remarkably like Earth-type organic remains or casts thereof.



    Everything you have just mentioned is addressed in the paper.. I know you don't believe in widespread life in the universe, however read with an open mind.
    No matter which position is correct, a falsifiable test is pretty difficult. What constitutes a good control?
  2.  
    Yes, I read the paper. Asserting something in a paper doesn't mean it's been properly addressed in real life... or even the laboratory.

    It is a very difficult issue. Even the detection of the presence of DNA using the same or nearly the same coding scheme as in terrestrial life would not rule out an independent, alien origin of life, because a very strong case can be made that the present scheme is evolutionarily optimal and perhaps unique among chemical schemes in its ability to reproduce and evolve.

    What would be a clincher for me is to find some _other_ system than DNA/RNA life, clinging to a meteorite or in a sample-return box, that could be grown in the lab, eventually to escape and infect the populace with some zombification-like sickness.... now, that would be very cool.