Vanilla 1.1.9 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

    • CommentAuthordixiepnum
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2011
     
    Okay....the government of canada is giving me $5k to put geothermal into my house. Anyone know the full installation cost, before annual savings?

    And while we're on the topic of free steam with our friend Rossi, can someone debunk the geothermal sterling engine for me?

    Thanks
    •  
      CommentAuthormrflora
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2011
     
    You will have to drill a hole to the crust-mantle boundary, which will cost considerably more than $5k.

    Regards,
    M.R.F.
    •  
      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2011
     
    You only need to drill deep enough to get hot/warm water or the latest idea is to pump down CO2. The depth you have to drill depends on your location, Even in a small country like the UK you get hot spots at quite shallow depths.
    A Stirling engine can as you know run on quite small heat differences.
  1.  
    Posted By: dixiepnumgeothermal


    Were is this well the heat or steam is coming from located??
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2011
     
    As the mohole was abandoned in the 1970s such a project has never been completed, so let us know how it goes.
    • CommentAuthordixiepnum
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2011
     
    This is a basic suburban residential system...anyone done one recently?
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2011 edited
     
    To be serious - does geothermal merely mean a heat exchanger pump (sorry - senior moment) working from a coil in the ground? If so, be careful because in much of Canada you can easily freeze the groundwater and the heat exchange then goes to shit and you freeze in the house as well.
  2.  
    That will be a heat pump system with a COP>1 so some might consider it OU.There are a number of options depending on the ground conditions where you live.
    I have considered one as the water table is very shallow on my property and I would have a very inexpensive in ground portion of the over all system . I have a very nice wood furnace that is inexpensive to run so it is tough to get a positive ROI on any replacement or secondary heating system.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2011
     
    Posted By: AngusTo be serious - does geothermal merely mean a heat[strike]exchanger[/strike]pump (sorry - senior moment) working from a coil in the ground? If so, be careful because in much of Canada you can easily freeze the groundwater and the heat exchange then goes to shit and you freeze in the house as well.
    Who uses pure water as the exchange fluid? Glycol holds up to pretty low temperatures. The bigger problem is the efficiency of a heat pump goes to hell as the heat source temperature approaches the refrigerant expanded temperature.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2011
     
    Posted By: joshs
    Posted By: AngusTo be serious - does geothermal merely mean a heat[strike]exchanger[/strike]pump (sorry - senior moment) working from a coil in the ground? If so, be careful because in much of Canada you can easily freeze the groundwater and the heat exchange then goes to shit and you freeze in the house as well.
    Who uses pure water as the exchange fluid? Glycol holds up to pretty low temperatures. The bigger problem is the efficiency of a heat pump goes to hell as the heat source temperature approaches the refrigerant expanded temperature.


    Nobody, I hope. I was talking about freezing the ground itself, not the exchange fluid.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2011
     
    Posted By: Angus
    Posted By: joshs
    Posted By: AngusTo be serious - does geothermal merely mean a heat[strike]exchanger[/strike]pump (sorry - senior moment) working from a coil in the ground? If so, be careful because in much of Canada you can easily freeze the groundwater and the heat exchange then goes to shit and you freeze in the house as well.
    Who uses pure water as the exchange fluid? Glycol holds up to pretty low temperatures. The bigger problem is the efficiency of a heat pump goes to hell as the heat source temperature approaches the refrigerant expanded temperature.


    Nobody, I hope. I was talking about freezing the ground itself, not the exchange fluid.
    Usually the exchanger is supposed to be buried deep enough that it is always in comparably warm soil.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2011
     
    That can be very deep. For example, daily mean temperature in Edmonton (a major city) for December - March is below -10C.
  3.  
    It's OK Angus most installers have a mini excavator so getting deep enough is not a problem.
    The biggest issue usually is cost VS enough capacity to heat your dwelling on those real cold days.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2011
     
    Posted By: Terry LingleIt's OK Angus most installers have a mini excavator so getting deep enough is not a problem.
    The biggest issue usually is cost VS enough capacity to heat your dwelling on those real cold days.


    Yup. I figure that if it isn't warm enough to use an air heat pump (I have one here on the coast), then it plain isn't warm enough. I still need an electric assist for cold days.
    • CommentAuthorMorgenster
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2011
     
    Posted By: dixiepnumOkay....the government of canada is giving me $5k to put geothermal into my house. Anyone know the full installation cost, before annual savings?

    And while we're on the topic of free steam with our friend Rossi, can someone debunk the geothermal sterling engine for me?

    Thanks


    Sure about the electricity part? Because normally a domestic geothermal pump is for complementing an existing central heating system. In fact, sometimes it is used to cool during summer. The system can go to a depth where the temperature is, above all, stable. Just look up geothermal heat pump on wikipedia.
    • CommentAuthorenginerd
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2011
     
    As I private person, you can probably get away with burying pipes full of ethylene glycol without double sealing the whole dig and establishing monitoring wells. Someday however, there could be a hue and cry and you might find yourself with a problem when you try to sell the place.

    Give me some safe healthy fossil fuel burning anyday.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThicket
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2011 edited
     
    About a year ago I evaluated using geothermal energy for my house in Canada. I talked to some experts from a geothermal company called Next Energy out of Elmira Ontario.

    My basic conclusions were;

    * Geothermal energy is an economic non-starter without the government subsidy.
    * Geothermal cannot compete with natural gas.
    * Geothermal can compete with fuel oil or propane.
    * The ease of installing the geothermal pipes is a key consideration. If you have a large, flat, and easy-to-dig location, you're fine. If you have rocky terrain or bedrock near the surface, forget it. You need to bury a field of pipe about six feet in the ground. The heat medium fluid is typically ethanol.
    * The technology is real and works. I saw functioning units that replaced furnaces and air conditioners.

    There is a terminology issue. Many people think that geothermal energy only refers to heat recovered from magma/hot springs.

    Geothermal energy was a non-starter for me. My house is hooked into the natural gas grid. The house is located up the side of an escarpment with bedrock at or near the surface.
    • CommentAuthordixiepnum
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2011
     
    Thanks thicket et al..
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2011
     
    There is a nomenclature problem here, which someone pointed out earlier. As I understand the term, "geothermal" refers to acquiring heat from the core of the earth, and is only practical where the crust is thin - i.e. near volcanoes. They use it in Iceland. A heat pump working out of the soil is garnering mostly stored heat in the soil water. It's not geothermal in the usual sense.
    • CommentAuthorenginerd
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2011
     
    Not geothermal in the usual historic sense, yes.

    Since it does use the temperature of the earth to heat (or cool) something else, it probably isn't too egregious a crime against vocabulary to apply it to these heat pump sinks.

    Now, real geothermal, Yellowstone Park stuff, that is the bomb.