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  1.  
    Posted By: gravitybootsIt was the power of the group. Get a bunch of like minded individuals together in a private group and they feed off each other, lapping up the "sean saids" and accepting the goal post changes without the checks and balances of a public forum. Anyone having anything negative to say would be ousted from the group as a naysaying "pseudosceptic". Policing of the forum in this way ensured only positive comments were aired reinforcing the overall opinion of the group.


    In other words, a cult.
  2.  
    Posted By: timetrumpetHugh saying he repents is no guarantee that he repents, he may just be taking the piss. ISTR he has a bit of form in that respect.


    Anything to further his own stupidity you mean?
    •  
      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeFeb 28th 2012
     
    The silly Minato wheel presented at Kinetica, the lame excuse about the bearings, the watchmaker (Knappen was it?) refusing to talk about his involvement in the "toy" -- ALL should have been the end of any belief in anything Steorn said. Banning reasonable critics from the forum should also have been a very big clue. It's what psychics and paranormal advocates do.
    • CommentAuthorBarguast
    • CommentTimeFeb 28th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: Knuckles OTooleWhat I can not understand with any believers is what was it that was so compelling to sustain belief for so long?

    This is the only thing that has sustained any of my initial interest in Steorn and it's following. Once I gave up on the 'science' - embarrassingly late, I admit - I have just been left wondering what compelled others to continue to believe after the Waterways fiasco and beyond. The cult klub mentality explains it to some degree, but it takes a special kind of dimwit (perhaps the double-0 variety) to persist a belief through all this nonsense. And beyond.

    I'd genuinely love to hear a believers account, if they aren't too proud to share it?
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeFeb 28th 2012
     
    Posted By: gravityboots
    Posted By: Loonyman
    Posted By: CrastneyI have no written excuse.

    it would now appear that I was wrong to believe.

    I apologise.



    Fair play to you... It takes some balls to admit you have been suckered, and I for one applaud you for being man enough to admit you were.


    I agree....Well done Crastney.

    I'd also like to see Tinker man up too.

    Craig of course will never admit he was wrong.
    Tinky's selling people on the idea he can engineer working gravity wheels. Paradiso Whackado did a feature on him and his Doomed To Failure development organization.
  3.  
    Posted By: Knuckles OToole
    Posted By: timetrumpetHugh saying he repents is no guarantee that he repents, he may just be taking the piss. ISTR he has a bit of form in that respect.


    Anything to further his own stupidity you mean?


    I can't bring it exactly to mind, but I'm fairly certain he had at least one exchange where he appeared to recant but clarified it was sarcasm.
    •  
      CommentAuthoraber0der
    • CommentTimeFeb 28th 2012
     
    Posted By: timetrumpet
    Posted By: Knuckles OToole
    Posted By: timetrumpetHugh saying he repents is no guarantee that he repents, he may just be taking the piss. ISTR he has a bit of form in that respect.


    Anything to further his own stupidity you mean?


    I can't bring it exactly to mind, but I'm fairly certain he had at least one exchange where he appeared to recant but clarified it was sarcasm.


    I remember that too.
    •  
      CommentAuthoralsetalokin
    • CommentTimeFeb 29th 2012 edited
     
    Once again.... the amazing thing about Steorn, in stark contrast to Dossi and Raphkalion, is the remarkable _consistency_ of their patter and demonstrations.

    The Minato wheel as presented at Kinetica:
    1) Would have turned quite well, seemingly without power, with a _handheld_ stator, and for the same reasons that Minato's did.
    2) Jeweled pivot bearings are a logical, if naive, choice for this kind of device. Logical because they are a) simple and b) have very low friction; naive because a) they are destroyed by side loads, like produced by slight asymmetries in PMOrbos and eOrbos magnetic attraction/repulsion, and b) they are very sensitive to changing end-play, like can be produced by ... hot lights affecting the plastic frame of the device.
    3) Everything they claimed about the eOrbo turned out to be true -- that is, the behaviour and measurements they obtained are easily repeatable and when interpreted _by their methods_ can look very much like excess energy is being produced. The reed switch.. again a logical but naive choice, and the failure actually to implement the battery charging scheme they described was moronic in the extreme, since it was so easy for TK to demonstrate. Of course the energy balance wasn't as they claimed.... but that's just an engineering issue, isn't it?

    Say what you will about their tactics, but their gadgetry was masterful in its face validity and its power to bamboozle.

    This is not to say that they were correct or honorable... I still believe that Sean himself was guzzled by an expert guzzler and only got onto the fraudboard relatively late in the game. I'd really like to get hold of Tachoman Max and put him to the third degree.

    Oh... and good on you, Crastney. Don't get too infuriated at the "I told you sos" from the spewdoseptics; a certain amount of hazing is to be expected when a former sheep joins the herd of goats.
    Or plethora of moles, whatever.
    •  
      CommentAuthoraber0der
    • CommentTimeFeb 29th 2012 edited
     
    and what do you think of the k-toy?

    ETA:And the kinetic microgenerator?

    ETA: And the bullshit
    Sean said in that FOX News interview? The handling of drmike, pennies everywhere, hairykrishna?
  4.  
    Posted By: aber0derand what do you think of the k-toy?

    The K-toy was part of the patter. I wasn't aware of the K-toy until after the Kinetica demo ... I was having my heart bypassed right around then... but all I do know about it now is that it got its energy from the same place a rattrap does, and fooled people with somewhat less intelligence than my current crop of houserats, none of whom are foolish enough to try to eat bait that's in a _rat trap_ , silly.


    ETA:And the kinetic microgenerator?
    You are referring to the story about the generators for the ATM cameras, which were supposed to have been the platform that allowed the discovery of variable reluctance pulse motors? I suppose it's plausible. Max says to Mike, Sean and Richard, "Alors! Take a look at thith ! The othillothcope, it wiggles in such pretty colors! Mon Dieu, we have made zeh miracle!" and they all adjourn to the local for some pints of the black. Max gets a rise in salary, Sean gets a wet dream, and the lads start drawing up papers.


    ETA: And the bullshit
    Sean said in that FOX News interview? The handling of drmike, pennies everywhere, hairykrishna?

    That pile rather collapsed under its own weight, didn't it? Sean outed himself as a cold-blooded sociopath and an alcoholic to boot... in my opinion, of course.....
    Now there's just a heap of heat, like from a pile of decaying chicken manure, coming from Steorn, along with the miasma of old mendacities.
    •  
      CommentAuthoraber0der
    • CommentTimeFeb 29th 2012
     
    Posted By: alsetalokinYou are referring to the story about the generators for the ATM cameras, which were supposed to have been the platform that allowed the discovery of variable reluctance pulse motors?


    No, I was referring to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steorn#History

    In May 2006, The Sunday Business Post reported that Steorn was a former dot-com company which was developing a microgenerator product based on the same principle as self-winding watches, as well as creating e-commerce websites for customers. The company had also recently raised about €2.5 million from investors and was three years into a four year development plan for its microgenerator technology.[2] Steorn has since stated that the account given in this interview was intended to prevent a leak regarding their free energy technology.[11]
  5.  
    Posted By: alsetalokinMax gets a rise in salary, Sean gets a wet dream, and the lads start drawing up papers.

    \
    And starts herding the sheep....farmers.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeFeb 29th 2012
     
    Posted By: alsetalokin. I still believe that Sean himself was guzzled by an expert guzzler and only got onto the fraudboard relatively late in the game. I'd really like to get hold of Tachoman Max and put him to the third degree.


    I think that as well.
  6.  
    Posted By: Angus
    Posted By: alsetalokin. I still believe that Sean himself was guzzled by an expert guzzler and only got onto the fraudboard relatively late in the game. I'd really like to get hold of Tachoman Max and put him to the third degree.


    I think that as well.


    I do as well. The three versions (PMM, E-Orbo, SS-Orbo) do not show natural progression and seem totally unrelated. Even the K-Toy thrown into the mix was a red herring. I think they got all of the versions from different places and nothing from their own shop except the marketing BS. The spiel Sean has used has gone from "Orbos" being mechanical devices to thermal. He stated in the beginning that it was stop/start motion and yet the Minato wheel would have, should have spun continuously and the SS Orbo and now Hephaheat do not spin at all. There has been only one continuous spin....and that has been from the mouth of the Grand Imperial Sot Hisself.
    •  
      CommentAuthoraber0der
    • CommentTimeFeb 29th 2012
     
    There were four versions, if you include the kinetic wrist-watch type.
  7.  
    Posted By: aber0derThere were four versions, if you include the kinetic wrist-watch type.


    All of which don't work.
    •  
      CommentAuthoraber0der
    • CommentTimeFeb 29th 2012
     
    Posted By: Knuckles OTooleAll of which don't work.


    Obviously, but that makes it harder to believe that Sean somehow stumbled into this mess, IMHO he was 'in' from the start.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeFeb 29th 2012
     
    You have trouble imagining that Sean somehow stumbled into a mess?
  8.  
    Posted By: aber0der
    Posted By: Knuckles OTooleAll of which don't work.


    Obviously, but that makes it harder to believe that Sean somehow stumbled into this mess, IMHO he was 'in' from the start.


    Well, Sean probably does a lot of stumbling but in this case I think that originally they had no device that manifest OU at all (and obviously still don't). I think they had some calculation anomaly that was presented to them that they built some test equipment around which was the device we saw Sean posing with early on and which they then launched (preemptively) the Economist ad. Remember it took some time from the initial ad to get to the Kinetica demo. That device came along from someone else later and was in fact a variation of the Minato wheel. That device did not match in any way shape or form the rhetoric that Sean had been spouting until then. There was no start/stop to it or time variant magnetic interactions. It was just a cheap piece of plastic that did nothing. The Kinetica demo was a grandstand farce and they knew it. The whole thing was about burning money and buying time. The developers clubs were also red herrings that had nothing to do with anything except create the illusion of activity and openness. When the developers clubs were not getting the info they needed Steorn switched to the E-Orbo and reset the clock. Same with the SS-Orbo. After six years and with most of the money gone they needed to shed the old scam and move to the Hephaheat BS and dissolve the developers club.

    I think their experience with fraud detection taught how much they could get away with and how long to string the rubes along without invoking any push-back. Steorn is a success but not for the reasons they alluded. They are a success in skimming millions, keeping their jobs, staying in business and staying out of jail. And all without ever producing a single practical piece of technology. And they have a cover for that too - they are an IP company and do not do product. Brilliant.
  9.  
    Posted By: timetrumpetHugh saying he repents is no guarantee that he repents, he may just be taking the piss. ISTR he has a bit of form in that respect.


    You could be right. He posted this just a couple of weeks ago:

    Posted By: CrastneyI can confirm that not much new is visible on the public facing/membership account side of the SKDB, but also that there are many people in groups working feverishly behind the scenes. Each group has their own space, and I have it on good authority (well, better than the OPs anyway) that they are very active.

    Stuff is happening - you'll just have to wait and see.