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    • CommentAuthornova
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2012
     
    Posted By: Angus
    Carrying a gun is a victimless crime in many areas. It certainly is in Canada.


    There have been quite a few victims recently here in Canada of the crime of carrying a gun. Many of these victims would likely be alive today if we didn't share a border with the USA and its unaccounted-for arsenal.
    Murder is the problem, not the gun.
    • CommentAuthornova
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: duncan torusOr do you have an example of a place where doing nothing has resulted in the poor getting their shit together motivated only by hunger and lack of money and with no help?
    Back in the fifties and before, there was a sense of community it the US. There was no food stamps and government help for the poor. Living was being alive with an excitement of being in a country where opportunity was everywhere. That was about 500 thousand laws ago. Now we have a nanny state where the government takes care of you cradle to grave. Freedom is gone. Life is a struggle for most people, not just the poor.
    Edit to add a coma.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2012
     
    Posted By: nova
    Posted By: Angus
    Carrying a gun is a victimless crime in many areas. It certainly is in Canada.


    There have been quite a few victims recently here in Canada of the crime of carrying a gun. Many of these victims would likely be alive today if we didn't share a border with the USA and its unaccounted-for arsenal.
    Murder is the problem, not the gun.


    Words fail me. And they certainly aren't doing you any good either.
  1.  
    Coma is right. Prevents inconvenient thought.

    Today I'm cynical. I don't believe there is an "answer". I believe that humanity (used advisedly) is on a cusp, and not of a Kurzweilian singularity, but rather of a Blakian abyss.
  2.  
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2012
     
    We are misguided by the beauty of our weapons.

    Do fourteen-year-old girls _really_ need sniper rifle training to be safe from black criminals with poor impulse control?
  3.  
    Posted By: novaBack in the fifties and before, there was a sense of community it the US. There was no food stamps and government help for the poor. Living was being alive with an excitement of being in a country where opportunity was everywhere.
    I understand. Sorry for your loss. Shit happens.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2012
     
    Posted By: nova
    Posted By: joshsI think having lots of guns is stupid. Guns are accelerants. In a tense situation stress impairs clear thinking. Adding accelerants to the situation won't make that better. The answer to: intimidation is not to gun people down in the streets. The answer to crime is better policing.
    What situation?
    Any confrontation.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2012
     
     Living was being alive with an excitement of being in a country where opportunity was everywhere. 


    Afghanistan is a country where opportunity is everywhere. It's pretty exciting too. It's just that there's not much else to be had.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2012
     
    Posted By: nova
    Posted By: joshsNova, there is validity to the point that straight hand-outs do invite dependency. But there is also an issue of whether it is moral to allow children to starve.
    No one will stop you from giving to the poor. Making a claim that others should be compelled to give to the poor is what I find morally wrong.
    Please elaborate your position. Do you think society has an obligation to prevent children from starving? Or do you think more along the lines that it's nice if someone else prevents such a tragedy?
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2012
     
    Posted By: nova
    Posted By: duncan torusOr do you have an example of a place where doing nothing has resulted in the poor getting their shit together motivated only by hunger and lack of money and with no help?
    Back in the fifties and before, there was a sense of community it the US. There was no food stamps and government help for the poor. Living was being alive with an excitement of being in a country where opportunity was everywhere. That was about 500 thousand laws ago. Now we have a nanny state where the government takes care of you cradle to grave. Freedom is gone. Life is a struggle for most people, not just the poor.
    Edit to add a coma.
    You do understand that the changes in opportunity in the USA have little to do with the "Great Society" don't you? Globalization and taxation policies have moved jobs to low cost overseas locations, and the burden of paying for the government has been pushed more and more on the middle class. Those who have orchestrated these changes would like the middle class to look downward for the source of their malaise, instead of up at the real source.

    There is a lot wrong with the welfare system and how it rewarded and encouraged dysfunctional behaviors. However but for a lot of luck, many of us could find ourselves in much more difficult circumstances. Does or does not society have an obligation to see that children do not starve?
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: alsetalokinbut rather of a Blakian abyss.


    C'mon. Blake's got a bright side too. . .

    Laughing Song

    When the green woods laugh with the voice of joy,
    And the dimpling stream runs laughing by;
    When the air does laugh with our merry wit,
    And the green hill laughs with the noise of it;

    When the meadows laugh with lively green,
    And the grasshopper laughs in the merry scene,
    When Mary and Susan and Emily
    With their sweet round mouths sing ``Ha, Ha, He!''

    When the painted birds laugh in the shade,
    Where our table with cherries and nuts is spread,
    Come live & be merry, and join with me,
    To sing the sweet chorus of ``Ha, Ha, He!"


    William Blake
  4.  
    Just knowing that Blake wrote it, makes it very creepy and mystical.

    Come live & be merry, and join with me,
    To sing the sweet chorus of ``Ha, Ha, He!"


    Now I'm going to have nightmares....
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2012
     
    How does an eighteenth century mystical poet get a break around here?
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      CommentAuthorpcstru
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2012
     
    Posted By: nova
    Posted By: hairykrishnaLegalising crack and heroin would probably massively drop the murder rate over night. Good luck to any US politician who proposes that though, the voting public don't always like logical policies.
    I hate drugs. It can bring down a nation. But....what is the solution to an addicted population.


    Which addiction. Alcohol, Tobacco, Fossil Fuel, ... Guns?
    • CommentAuthornova
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2012
     
    Posted By: joshsThere is a lot wrong with the welfare system and how it rewarded and encouraged dysfunctional behaviors. However but for a lot of luck, many of us could find ourselves in much more difficult circumstances. Does or does not society have an obligation to see that children do not starve?
    You assume that unless the government intervenes, children will starve. And when you ask, does not society have an obligation you are actually saying does not government have an obligation and my answer is no.
    • CommentAuthornova
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2012
     
    Posted By: pcstru
    I hate drugs. It can bring down a nation. But....what is the solution to an addicted population.


    Which addiction. Alcohol, Tobacco, Fossil Fuel, ... Guns?
    Did you miss the part where I said, "I hate drugs."?
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      CommentAuthorpcstru
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2012
     
    Posted By: nova
    Posted By: pcstru
    I hate drugs. It can bring down a nation. But....what is the solution to an addicted population.


    Which addiction. Alcohol, Tobacco, Fossil Fuel, ... Guns?
    Did you miss the part where I said, "I hate drugs."?



    No, I didn't miss it but I'm guessing you don't mean it - or are you one of those wierdo's that eschew modern medicine?

    I was trying to get you to think about the nature of addiction. Would drugs be OK if there was no addiction? But I should have realised that was futile when I reached the word "think".
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      CommentAuthorDuracell
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: nova
    Posted By: joshsThere is a lot wrong with the welfare system and how it rewarded and encouraged dysfunctional behaviors. However but for a lot of luck, many of us could find ourselves in much more difficult circumstances. Does or does not society have an obligation to see that children do not starve?
    You assume that unless the government intervenes, children will starve. And when you ask, does not society have an obligation you are actually saying does not government have an obligation and my answer is no.


    So, your argument is that all social welfare should be abandoned then? A government shouldn't "intervene" under any circumstances? What about the elderly and the infirm? What about people with mental health issues, learning difficulties and other disabilities? You reckon that if the US government were to cease even pretending that it's trying to provide the poorest and most marginalised members of its population with the bare minimum amounts of food, shelter, clothing, healthcare & education they require, then somehow this would reduce poverty and crime (including gun related crime) in the US? You believe that this would somehow provide the missing motivation that the poorest and most marginalised members of US society need in order to transform themselves into fully functional, healthy, fit, able, successful, well-educated and law-abiding members of the their communities?
    • CommentAuthornova
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2012
     
    Posted By: pcstruNo, I didn't miss it but I'm guessing you don't mean it - or are you one of those wierdo's that eschew modern medicine?

    I was trying to get you to think about the nature of addiction. Would drugs be OK if there was no addiction? But I should have realised that was futile when I reached the word "think".
    I hate illegal street drugs, the drug that always betrays the user. The drug where an addiction developes and the drug is needed just to make the person feel normal.
    You listed fossil fuel. Are you serious? Being dependent on something does not relate to being addicted. I'm dependent on food for survival but not addicted. The very nature of drugs that alter the state of mind has potential of being addictive. Addictive drugs used illegally offers no long term benefits to the users.