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      CommentAuthoralsetalokin
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2013 edited
     
    Too late, I am out of "big science". If it doesn't fit in my Terella Anatmo-sphere, it's too big for me, and I would want to be paid anyhow. I can consult as to experimental design and analysis, for a reasonable fee, and I do have some little experience with ion thrusters and Biefeld-Brown type apparatuses at high voltage. However I am quite sure the boys and girl at ETI would be more than happy to take a look, and they probably would do it for nothing.

    However... I might be persuaded to hook a 2200 mA-H LiPo to a load, put it in the chamber and pump it down to a micron or so. That might just prove to be spectaculatable.
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    Hey, he's offered to send me data, so maybe we both can have a go. But I'd like to see you get paid. Speaking for myself, I'm haemorrhaging cash currently and need income.
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      CommentAuthoralsetalokin
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2013 edited
     
    Well... you could try having Al's Peppercorn Ramen for dinner instead of a 17 dollar peppercorn steak. It's a speciality, Chez Al, and for 2.95 too. And you get half an avocado, with dressing, on the side.
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    It's the WD-40 dressing that forbids me to comment on that
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    If he sends you data, please ask for photographs of the original laboratory notebooks. Spreadsheets and tables are all well and good, but you can tell a lot more from the response to a request for a photograph of the notebook.
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      CommentAuthoralsetalokin
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2013 edited
     
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanIt's the WD-40 dressing that forbids me to comment on that


    Oh ye of little faith. Here at Chez Al, we serve only Marie's Red Wine Vinaigrette, easily the best commercial salad dressing on the market, or pure EVOO/Wine Vinegar for the purist. Huey Fong's Chili Garlic Sauce is in the little spice cup on every table, too.
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    Cooking is a mysterious universe to me. I love good food though. I did learn to make Creme Brulee a few years ago though. I forgot now.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeJul 30th 2013
     
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanThe vector angle debunk was subsequently challenged by the Chinese 2012 paper who did an end-run around it using QM. Tactically I'm on the fence because they seem to be measuring respectable thrust levels that are well above experimental measurement noise. It is unclear to me whether they are truly self-contained with those high power levels. That's usually the first hurdle at which most of these types of devices fall on their keesters. Strategically, it cannot work because the Lorentz force is conservative. "No closed system of currents can generate a net force" (and I am not talking about restoring torques, which we call "a compass", either).

    They need to miniaturise it to fit into a CubeSat. Until then, I'll just watch and wait.
    There is no conflict between QM and geometry. Someone is smoking wacky weed if they think that there is.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeJul 30th 2013
     
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanYour thesis being constant power per unit volume? But that isn't the case for a standing wave, is it?
    But if Shawyer's system were to work the waves would have to travel at least a little bit. And hence we should see a big crack in his thesis that relies on standing waves inside cavities of very high Q. That crack is consistent with Trim's silly comments about the force disappearing if it is involved in any work.
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    They are saying that; Trim is merely quoting, poor thing.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 30th 2013
     
    Posted By: joshsTrim's silly comments about the force disappearing if it is involved in any work.


    That is not an uncommon occurrence among Essex road crews, so Trim may be speaking from experience. To be fair.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 30th 2013
     
    Posted By: joshsBut if Shawyer's system were to work the waves would have to travel at least a little bit.


    Interesting point. If the whole rig moves along its axis, then what about Doppler shift? I guess the paper discusses something of the relativistic effects. I'll have to have a look.

    When it's stationary I think it's pretty obvious that the radiation pressure in both directions is the same. Where is the evidence for these large forces the Chinese are supposedly measuring?
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    "Essex" and "Texas" seem to have more in common than just "s", "e", and "x". Road crews here also require an overunity ratio of at least three to one to get anything done. Three supervisors to every one actual worker is about the typical crew composition, from the looks of things.
    • CommentAuthortinker
    • CommentTimeJul 30th 2013
     
    You get 4 people on a road gang in Texas? Things are looking up. for sure. We normally have 2 Romanians and one of them spends all day cleaning windscreens for baksheesh by the traffic lights.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeJul 30th 2013
     
    Posted By: Angus
    Posted By: joshsBut if Shawyer's system were to work the waves would have to travel at least a little bit.


    Interesting point. If the whole rig moves along its axis, then what about Doppler shift? I guess the paper discusses something of the relativistic effects. I'll have to have a look.

    When it's stationary I think it's pretty obvious that the radiation pressure in both directions is the same. Where is the evidence for these large forces the Chinese are supposedly measuring?
    It may be obvious to you and me, but in a Little Miss Mosfet style of inventing theory to fit imaginary desires, IIRC Shawyer argues that the taper results in a force difference supposedly because of phase velocity difference. It is complete f'n woo. The people who are dumb enough to spend money on this idiocy deserve to lose every cent they spend. Perhaps it is of public benefit because it may keep them from applying their incompetence to things that matter, like civil engineering works, or aircraft, etc.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 30th 2013
     
    Urk!! Phase velocity difference? That's all part of the mode evolution that guarantees the same total force on each end!
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeJul 30th 2013
     
    Posted By: AngusUrk!! Phase velocity difference? That's all part of the mode evolution that guarantees the same total force on each end!
    Ka bing go! In a typically wooish effort, Shawyer takes the result of a principle and then through miscalcutainment derives theoretical numbers that supposedly violate the original principle. Logic like that would have flunked him out of high school geometry.
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    Still groovin' on Serrano here. Here's a very recent patent application, perhaps related (it at least cites Serrano)
    http://www.google.com/patents/US8459002
    which basically works off the force between two parallel wires separated by a 1/4 wavelength and carrying AC, and resonant. A 2-element Yagi from The Twilight Zone.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeJul 30th 2013
     
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanStill groovin' on Serrano here. Here's a very recent patent application, perhaps related (it at least cites Serrano)
    http://www.google.com/patents/US8459002
    which basically works off the force between two parallel wires separated by a 1/4 wavelength and carrying AC, and resonant. A 2-element Yagi from The Twilight Zone.
    Good luck to anyone trying to build a working thruster from that patent.
  8.  
    My impression is that, as I mentioned, he's simply using the radiation reaction from a 2-element Yagi. In space, that would qualify as "a working thruster", just as would a photon rocket. However, if his optimisations are worth anything (and I don't fully understand them, especially the number of bits required for tuning accuracy - can anyone shed light?), then he's actually doing antenna design optimisation.

    I just got off the phone with him, actually. He's an applied mathematician. He's building something right now. I'm still climbing the learning curve on the patent details, and am going to give him a little email lecture on OU, just as I gave Serrano.