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  1.  
    "Insert Strut A into Hole B, thread Nut C onto Strut and tighten with the included 3 nanometer wrench."
  2.  
    Complexity beyond the wildest imaginings
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJyUtbn0O5Y

    And that's just a minute part of it.
  3.  
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanComplexity beyond the wildest imaginings
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJyUtbn0O5Y

    And that's just a minute part of it.


    Yep. Kind of makes one wonder, doesn't it. All that complexity, evolving in parallel, and one can't even say it is "driven" by natural selection, only mediated by it. It's tempting to fall into the "creator God" infinite regress (gods all the way down), because the mind truly boggles. Four billion years of trial and error doesn't seem like nearly enough time to get all that stuff working together like it does, if the only shaping force is the ability to survive the local conditions long enough to reproduce.
  4.  
    I feel 100% the same way. The reality of that complexity is creepy.
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    We had better be careful, or we will talk ourselves into deism or worse.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2020
     
    Perhaps there is another idea and we have been so constructed as not to be able to see it.
  6.  
    Aha! I see what you mean!

    Or might mean by "so constructed".

    Oh dear...
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2020
     
    And even in my speculation there is a speculation. Should I say

    "Perhaps there is another idea and we have been so constructed as not to be able to see it."

    or

    "Perhaps there is another idea and we intrinsically unable to see it."
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    It's so difficult, linguistically, to not somehow imply intent in cases like these.
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    Deism. It's right around the corner. Watch: Is there any reason why the Big Bang could not be teleological as well as physical? What the fulk do we know anyway? Maybe we are, in function if not in exact form, the expression of the intent of the Universe to be able to contemplate itself, and hence the inevitable consequence of the workings of "mere" physical laws within a large and ancient Universe?
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2020
     
    Any magic you can't explain is an act of God?
    • CommentAuthorloreman
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2020
     
    Posted By: alsetalokinDeism. It's right around the corner. Watch: Is there any reason why the Big Bang could not be teleological as well as physical? What the fulk do we know anyway? Maybe we are, in function if not in exact form, the expression of the intent of the Universe to be able to contemplate itself, and hence the inevitable consequence of the workings of "mere" physical laws within a large and ancient Universe?


    I think that’s a rational speculation given the evidence. You’re not on your own in that regard.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2020
     
    But such an opinion is content-free. It says that the origin of the universe, which all admit we can't explain, is the result of a process we can't explain. To attribute it to a Deity whose properties we don't know doesn't add anything.
    • CommentAuthorloreman
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2020
     
    Posted By: AngusBut such an opinion is content-free. It says that the origin of the universe, which all admit we can't explain, is the result of a process we can't explain. To attribute it to a Deity whose properties we don't know doesn't add anything.


    I don’t think that’s quite it-it’s more like postulating this Universe as “deity” and emergent properties like Us as as sort of like (elegance hem hem) sensory organs or something.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2020
     
    Ummm...OK. So this universe whose origins we can't explain is itself "deity". Sounds like a distinction without a difference to me. The emergent properties you mention do add a difference- they suggest that the "deity" can sense things, so you now have a sort of anthropomorphism sneaking in.

    Sorry, I can't make any sense of that.
    • CommentAuthorloreman
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2020 edited
     
    Posted By: AngusUmmm...OK. So this universe whose origins we can't explain is itself "deity". Sounds like a distinction without a difference to me. The emergent properties you mention do add a difference- they suggest that the "deity" can sense things, so you now have a sort of anthropomorphism sneaking in.

    Sorry, I can't make any sense of that.


    It’s a sort of extension of Kantian ding an sich with a bit of deism rolled in.
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    Like a rabbit, pulling itself out of a hat?
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    It's a bootstrap without a puller
    • CommentAuthorloreman
    • CommentTimeFeb 13th 2020 edited
     
    Yeah, but the rabbit is apparently really, really tiny, hence the Fermi paradox.
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeFeb 13th 2020
     
    It's what the Catholic Church calls a "mystery"--they can't explain it, but it's an article of faith.