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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2021
     
    Great find, AP!!
    Emergent behaviour emerges in embryology...after playing about with swarms I find this fascinating stuff. Murmurations of cells ...!
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    I'm glad somebody's happy. [rant]Yesterday I had to endure a Hitlerian vascular surgeon with his sidekick Nurse Ratchett. It's not enough that these people pull down fat 6 figures and participate in for-profit healthcare as a mirror activity for a society consumed with greed, but they have to be nasty about it to boot. Hippocrates spins.
    [/rant]

    What I find fascinating above all is that this whole thing has been in plain sight since Van Leeuwenhoek.

    It took someone with an education in both biology and computer science to finally grok it - that there's an organising principle and mechanism whose stock in trade is almost-infinitely adaptable hardware systems (cells) as building blocks. As has been suspected for some time in embryology, DNA is not commanding an organism to assemble itself; rather, DNA is providing the flexibility to assemble under a variety of environmental constraints. Although it's true that methylation and phosphorylation do fill the role of epigenetic actors, they are bottom-up "machine code" modulators. The real epigenetic beastie is this biolectric thingie.

    At least that's my initial impression. I don't yet understand the organising principle and mechanism which Levin has uncovered in any detail. Then there's the inheritance mechanism too...
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2021 edited
     
    I'm glad I'm happy too. Sorry about the veins.

    It hit me as well that this is one of those blindingly obvious insights that it took just the right person to discover. We've known about monozygotic twins, the distributed nature of memory, etc, etc forever.

    The "behaviour" of his xenobots is peculiar. What they showed was so rudimentary as to maybe have a component that is in the eye of the beholder. But that leads to a weird regression of the beholder's mind interacting with the xenobot's "mind" to create an opinion...aaaargh!

    In any event it shows again how hard it would be to capture the state of a mind for transmission on a communication link. To me it looks chaotic: too sensitive to initial conditions to be possible - in principle.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2021
     
  2.  
    More Levin:
    Sean Carroll's Mindscape https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm7VDk8kxOw
    2019 Allen Frontiers Symposium https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9ONOjXJ_Lg
    ALife 2020 Keynote - Robot Cancer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L43-XE1uwWc

    Check the description after this video for an extensive list of further references
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBZcQ6ISbpU
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    A good chat
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qbklit16Vk

    and some useful links once again in the description.
    https://allencenter.tufts.edu/our-team/michael-levin/
    http://www.drmichaellevin.org​

    Think I'm done spewing links for the nonce. But I'll close by saying that I'm still thoroughly mystified by all this revelatory stuff (and I mean revelatory quite literally). There's a whole herd of elephants now in the room. The chief engineering questions appear unanswered:

    1. Where is the set point target morphology stored? If in a distributed fashion, what and where is the code?
    2. How does inheritance work?
    3. etc etc
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      CommentAuthorgoatcheez
    • CommentTimeApr 16th 2021 edited
     
    You're probably not interested in what Rupert Sheldrake has to say on the subject.

    https://www.sheldrake.org/research/morphic-resonance
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      CommentAuthorgoatcheez
    • CommentTimeApr 16th 2021 edited
     
    https://explore.scimednet.org/index.php/bioelectricity-natures-book-of-instructions/

    Aristotle would call this the "soul" as he describes it in De Anima.
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      CommentAuthorgoatcheez
    • CommentTimeApr 16th 2021 edited
     
    David Bohm and Rupert Sheldrake discuss Morphic Fields:

    https://www.sheldrake.org/files/pdfs/A_New_Science_of_Life_Appx_B.pdf

    Creode or chreod is a neologistic portmanteau term coined by the English 20th century biologist C. H. Waddington to represent the developmental pathway followed by a cell as it grows to form part of a specialized organ.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeApr 16th 2021
     
    Posted By: goatcheezYou're probably not interested in what Rupert Sheldrake has to say on the subject.

    https://www.sheldrake.org/research/morphic-resonance


    He was the first one came to mind. However, "morphic resonance" seems to be woo, whereas Levin seems to have the goods.
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      CommentAuthorgoatcheez
    • CommentTimeApr 16th 2021
     
    However, the concepts are related. Read the beginnings of the Bohm discussions.
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    I believe the going rate is 10 Sheldrakes to a Levin.
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    Posted By: goatcheezYou're probably not interested in what Rupert Sheldrake has to say on the subject.

    https://www.sheldrake.org/research/morphic-resonance
    People change :)

    I'll have you know that I bought every Lyall Watson book I could get my hands on back in the day.
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      CommentAuthorgoatcheez
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
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      CommentAuthoroak
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
  7.  
    Ahem. I introduced Levin to you ungrateful swine several weeks back.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    No credit unless you ARE Levin.
  8.  
    What a curious response, since you were the only one who DID give me credit for posting about it.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTime4 days ago edited
     
    But it's only once per customer, you know.

    I am opposed to making thankful fuss of 'trappers who present us meaty stuff. It's just a duty we should do for. aught. Besides, if we acknowledged such a debt then Trim would own the place and that won't do.