Vanilla 1.1.9 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

    •  
      CommentAuthorQuanten
    • CommentTimeDec 15th 2009
     
    Before declaring it a fraud, I will wait the end of the demo. But up to now it is laughable, I hope it goes better in the next day as tinker says, because otherwise this will have started in a bang, but will end in a WHIMPER.
    •  
      CommentAuthorgenesis
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2009
     
    Posted By: CrastneyIf you cap is releasing all it's stored charge in one go, you'd have to recharge it all in one go.
    the battery isn't losing all it's stored energy each time though, and a battery can be trickle charged a bit at a time - yes?


    you have no idea what you just did say...have you?
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2009
     
    Posted By: tinkerHi Josh:- You said...

    In the event that the device were self-sustaining, the total energy that must be stored need not be greater than that lost in one full cycle: one revolution. And that is the friction and eddy current losses of one revolution. Any electrical store need only hold up voltage without substantial change against one revolution of loss / gain. A D size battery against near zero friction bearings is on the order of million times overkill. A modest capacitor would be more than sufficient. But Steorn, masters of the new physical reality chose a giant D size battery. Only a lantern battery, or perhaps an automobile battery would have been more ridiculous.


    What a brilliant piece of analysis - go to the top of the class! What do batteries give you? Amperes on demand. How big a cap would you need to give you several amps on demand? Do you know how much current an Orbo needs? No you do not. Gosh, that cap might be as big as the battery. Then you could say there was a battery inside the capacitor. There are no hidden rabbits on the Orbo hat mate, everything is on show. And when the show is open to the world there might well be a lot more to see...

    T.

    Tinker
    Tinker, the amount of energy required is small, and a decent capacitor has a very low ESR compared to typical batteries.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2009
     
    Posted By: Crastneymaybe you couldn't charge the capacitor quickly enough between pulses?
    Capacitors charge much faster than batteries, and with less loss due to the much lower ESR and charge capacity.
    •  
      CommentAuthorgenesis
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2009
     
    Posted By: tinker
    What a brilliant piece of analysis - go to the top of the class! What do batteries give you? Amperes on demand. How big a cap would you need to give you several amps on demand? Do you know how much current an Orbo needs? No you do not. Gosh, that cap might be as big as the battery. Then you could say there was a battery inside the capacitor. There are no hidden rabbits on the Orbo hat mate, everything is on show. And when the show is open to the world there might well be a lot more to see...


    have you ever seen a capacitor in a real life...i have to ask.....? are you aware that there are 2.5V 1800 Farads caps the size of that D-cell which can give you lot of amps for a period of several minutes...what do you pretend to know orwhat do you pretend to be? eh?!
    • CommentAuthorenginerd
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2009
     
    Why doesn't steorn make flawed energy balance measurements with inappropriate equipment? If they are going to demo standard FE fare they should play the standard game.
  1.  
    Does it look to you like it's slowing down? It does to me.

    A free energy device that needs a battery, and slows down over time, while it's producing 3x over its input.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2009
     
    Posted By: genesis
    Posted By: tinker
    What a brilliant piece of analysis - go to the top of the class! What do batteries give you? Amperes on demand. How big a cap would you need to give you several amps on demand? Do you know how much current an Orbo needs? No you do not. Gosh, that cap might be as big as the battery. Then you could say there was a battery inside the capacitor. There are no hidden rabbits on the Orbo hat mate, everything is on show. And when the show is open to the world there might well be a lot more to see...


    have you ever seen a capacitor in a real life...i have to ask.....? are you aware that there are 2.5V 1800 Farads caps the size of that D-cell which can give you lot of amps for a period of several minutes...what do you pretend to know orwhat do you pretend to be? eh?!
    Let's save Tinker some time. Let us assume 10mJ / revolution total energy in. Since the drive coils are divided into quadrants, we can safely assume that we need to store no more energy than used for a quarter turn: 2.5mJ. Let us further assume that the maximum voltage change allowed is 10% ie 0.1V from a nominal of 1.2V. 2.5mJ/( 1.44 - 1.21 ) = C = 11,000uF @ 2.5V rating. Four Chemicon PSC2.5VB2700MJ11's would do: 0.4" diameter each 0.5" long. IOW an outline of 0.8" square x 0.5" high. The ripple current capability of each cap is 5.5A at high frequency and half that at low frequency. 10A pulses would be a non-problem. These are available for less than a dollar each.

    Moving to supercaps an AVX BZ094B153ZSB is 0.7" * 0.6" * 0.15" and provides 15,000uF at 4.5V.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2009
     
    Posted By: alsetalokinDoes it look to you like it's slowing down? It does to me.

    A free energy device that needs a battery, and slows down over time, while it's producing 3x over its input.
    One must wonder what mechanism regulates the speed. The device appears to be self-commutating. The speed would increase until the losses climb to match all the free energy it is supposed to generate. The battery is the lowest impedance non-linear element. We can reasonably infer that slowing is due to decay in the battery terminal voltage. And we know that for NiMh batteries the voltage is very flat until just before total discharge.
    •  
      CommentAuthorgenesis
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2009
     
    Posted By: joshsLet's save Tinker some time. Let us assume 10mJ / revolution total energy in. Since the drive coils are divided into quadrants, we can safely assume that we need to store no more energy than used for a quarter turn: 2.5mJ. Let us further assume that the maximum voltage change allowed is 10% ie 0.1V from a nominal of 1.2V. 2.5mJ/( 1.44 - 1.21 ) = C = 11,000uF @ 2.5V rating. Four Chemicon PSC2.5VB2700MJ11's would do: 0.4" diameter each 0.5" long. IOW an outline of 0.8" square x 0.5" high. The ripple current capability of each cap is 5.5A at high frequency and half that at low frequency. 10A pulses would be a non-problem. These are available for less than a dollar each.

    Moving to supercaps an AVX BZ094B153ZSB is 0.7" * 0.6" * 0.15" and provides 15,000uF at 4.5V.


    yep-perfectly nailed!....but then again comes the argument that your assumptions are wrong:D ...mean cannot be told because of NDA...remeber? LOL the ultracap example is just for to be on the "safe" side...
    •  
      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2009
     
    Silly boy. Producing 3x over its input is tiring. It's just taking a well deserved rest!
    • CommentAuthortinker
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2009
     
    Genesis. So what? It's watch and learn time. Buy you a consolation Guiness in Dublin. T.
    •  
      CommentAuthorgenesis
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2009
     
    Posted By: tinkerGenesis. So what? It's watch and learn time. Buy you a consolation Guiness in Dublin. T.

    LOL...i'd love to.....but - hey let's just wait...
    •  
      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2009
     
    Remember it is only supposed to be producing 3x over its input when it includes its total waste heat.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2009
     
    Posted By: TrimRemember it is only supposed to be producing 3x over its input when it includes its total waste heat.
    So says Sean, an established liar in matters of Steorn's free energy machines.
  2.  
    Posted By: alsetalokinDoes it look to you like it's slowing down? It does to me.

    A free energy device that needs a battery, and slows down over time, while it's producing 3x over its input.


    They've taken stop/start to the next level: slowdown/speedup
    •  
      CommentAuthorHedyL
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2009
     
    Posted By: overconfident
    Posted By: alsetalokinDoes it look to you like it's slowing down? It does to me.

    A free energy device that needs a battery, and slows down over time, while it's producing 3x over its input.


    They've taken stop/start to the next level: slowdown/speedup


    Makes it harder for the Newtonian cop to write the ticket!
  3.  
    Posted By: TrimRemember it is only supposed to be producing 3x over its input when it includes its total waste heat.


    And remember, too, that we have seen absolutely no evidence or data to support this "Seansaid". None. Nada. Zilch. Zip. Nitchego. Nichts.