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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeDec 25th 2013
     
    Posted By: Asterix
    Posted By: tinkerYou can't have a vital connection with someone dead. Not legally, at least. Nor can they be knighted AFAIK. He could however get a posthumous medal for his role in the wartime decoding schtick.


    So the CoE doesn't hold with praying to the dead? I always thought they followed the Roman Catholics with that nonsense.


    I'm not aware that the dead are worthy of prayers, at least until they have been properly beatified.
    • CommentAuthorthehard
    • CommentTimeDec 25th 2013
     
    When I read the thread subject I swear I though you were referring to this: Are you a robot?
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeDec 28th 2013
     
    Anent Turing and Bletchley Park, this is interesting, hinting that the Soviets may have had the decryption technology also.
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeDec 28th 2013
     
    Also, a good read on "l'affaire Turing"
    • CommentAuthortinker
    • CommentTimeDec 28th 2013
     
    @Asterix. The Soviets certainly could have decrypted Wermacht signals by the same brute force but conventional methods that were used at Bletchley Park early in the war. They certainly had plenty of bright mathematicians and logicians capable of the work. And, don't forget they were our Allies.

    However, there were two Enigma standards, one using (from memory) a 5 rotor machine, and another using a 6 rotor 'turbo' version. This more complex decryption method was used by the Kreigsmarine, and later on by the Luftwaffe. Although 6 rotor encryption could (with great difficulty) be cracked by brute force this often took too long to be really useful. The leap to electronic decryption using Colossus was totally British, and it is unlikely the Soviets knew too much about it (or enough to build a copy of Colossus) until the later 1940's by which time the Cambridge circle of spies were operating at full throttle.
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    yay brits!
    • CommentAuthorthehard
    • CommentTimeDec 28th 2013
     
    Seen on twitter :"Dr. Alan Turing doesn't need a Royal Pardon. He deserves a Royal Apology"
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeDec 28th 2013
     
    Why should anyone have such hard feelings about taming the disgusting sexual habits of Mr. Turing. It is up to society led by the Royals to instill a proper sense of sexual hygiene. Just look at the lead taken by Prince Charles in his letters to Carmella expressing his desire to be her human tampon.
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeDec 28th 2013
     
    Posted By: tinker@Asterix. The Soviets certainly could have decrypted Wermacht signals by the same brute force but conventional methods that were used at Bletchley Park early in the war. They certainly had plenty of bright mathematicians and logicians capable of the work. And, don't forget they were our Allies.


    I'm familiar with the UK history, but sadly, the history of wartime Soviet cryptography may be lost forever.

    Is there any evidence that Turing or even von Neumann were familiar with the pre-war work of Antanasoff? History is hard to coordinate.

    What's curious about Turing is the summary determination of suicide, with no tests being performed. He might as well have died from a cerebral hemorrhage or been killed by MI5.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeDec 28th 2013
     
    Posted By: AsterixWhat's curious about Turing is the summary determination of suicide, with no tests being performed. He might as well have died from a cerebral hemorrhage or been killed by MI5.


    Or suffered a stupid accident. He was known to be working with cyanide and he did have a habit of munching food in the lab, so his biography said.
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeDec 28th 2013 edited
     
    I guess nobody will ever know for sure. One point, though, is that when men receive "chemical castration", some react with a very severe depression. This is known from prostate cancer treatment. Forcing hormonal ablation on someone who doesn't "need" it makes depression even more likely and in that setting, suicide is certainly possible.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeDec 28th 2013
     
    Posted By: maryyugoForcing hormonal ablation on someone who doesn't "need" it makes depression even more likely


    Evidence?
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeDec 28th 2013
     
    Posted By: maryyugoI guess nobody will ever know for sure. One point, though, is that when men receive "chemical castration", some react with a very severe depression. This is known from prostate cancer treatment. Forcing hormonal ablation on someone who doesn't "need" it makes depression even more likely and in that setting, suicide is certainly possible.


    That may be, but Turing had served out his sentence and was no longer under the estrogen regime. By all reports, he was in good spirits and had planned that day, including time on the Mark II.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeDec 28th 2013
     
    Posted By: Angus
    Posted By: maryyugoForcing hormonal ablation on someone who doesn't "need" it makes depression even more likely


    Evidence?
    You must be joking.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeDec 28th 2013
     
    Posted By: joshs
    Posted By: Angus
    Posted By: maryyugoForcing hormonal ablation on someone who doesn't "need" it makes depression even more likely


    Evidence?
    You must be joking.


    Not at all. The assertion was that hormonal ablation CAUSES depression, implying a pharmacological link. Why would forced ablation exacerbate that pharmacology?

    Admittedly it is independently depressing to have to submit to such a thing.
    • CommentAuthorjoshs
    • CommentTimeDec 29th 2013
     
    Most munificent King Angus, I was referring to the absurdity of the idea that your request for supporting evidence would be honored.
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeDec 29th 2013 edited
     
    Josh never knows what he doesn't know.

    Abstract

    Purpose: Prostate cancer is the most common malignancy in men and one of the leading causes of cancer death in men internationally. Treatment for prostate cancer frequently includes androgen deprivation therapy (ADT). Reports of depressive symptoms arising during ADT are emerging. This study examines the prevalence rates and risk factors associated with major depression in this population. Method: 45 men with prostate cancer receiving ADT at the MGH Cancer Center were surveyed for depression with the SCID for Axis I disorders for DSM-IV and the Beck Depression Inventory. Results: Major depressive disorder was prevalent in 12.8% of the men with prostate cancer receiving ADT, eight times the national rate of depression in men, 32 times the rate in men over 65 years old. Major depression was not associated with worsening disease, medical response to ADT, receiving chemotherapy, or the type of ADT. Past history of depression was associated with current depression in this population (p<0.000). No first onset cases of depression occurred on ADT in this sample. Conclusion: This data suggests a significant rate of major depression in men with prostate cancer receiving ADT and that men with past histories of depression may be at particular risk for recurrence of their depression while undergoing this treatment. Copyright © 2002 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.


    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pon.592/abstract

    Men who received androgen suppression had more fatigue, loss of energy, emotional distress and a lower overall quality of life than men who deferred hormone therapy. Combined androgen blockade had a greater adverse effect on quality of life than monotherapy.


    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022534705675337

    A search requiring maybe 30 seconds would have revealed dozens of articles. Maybe hundreds.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeDec 29th 2013 edited
     
    Posted By: maryyugoThis data suggests a significant rate of major depression in men with prostate cancer receiving ADT and that men with past histories of depression may be at particular risk for recurrence of their depression while undergoing this treatment.



    This is not what I asked for. What evidence is there that FORCED treatment EXACERBATES this effect?


    Honoured in the attempt, at least.
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      CommentAuthormaryyugo
    • CommentTimeDec 29th 2013 edited
     
    Posted By: AngusThis is not what I asked for. What evidence is there that FORCED treatment EXACERBATES this effect?
    Oh. That's at best a weird question. You *need* evidence that forcing castration on someone will make them depressed? Or *more* depressed? That was so obvious that I misinterpreted what you asked.

    No, I have no specific evidence that forcible castration makes one more depressed than when they volunteer for it as a consequence of drug treatment. I doubt that that study has been done or will be done. Pshaaaaw.

    Of course, if what someone else said is accurate -- that Turing was no longer being "treated" with hormones for some time before he committed suicide, then it's pretty moot.
    • CommentAuthorAsterix
    • CommentTimeDec 29th 2013
     
    Posted By: maryyugoOf course, if what someone else said is accurate -- that Turing was no longer being "treated" with hormones for some time before he committed suicide, then it's pretty moot.


    So says the article I cited. Turing even managed an affair while he was being "treated".