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      CommentAuthorgoatcheez
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2019
     
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      CommentAuthoraber0der
    • CommentTimeNov 5th 2019
     
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      CommentAuthoraber0der
    • CommentTimeNov 5th 2019
     
    I wonder when the first completely synthesized 9th season of "Laura Connor, chronicles of termination and treasurehuntville's bulbous adventures" is shined on our collective retinas, individually.
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      CommentAuthoralsetalokin
    • CommentTimeNov 5th 2019 edited
     
    I find it very interesting that those two posts are in sequence.
    https://twitter.com/jonathanfly/status/1191660453681860609/video/1
    I'm pretty sure that someone with the requisite experience might say that the effect is indeed much more like the visual distortions experienced due to ingesting the right kind of wrong mushrooms than it is like wind or animal locomotion.
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      CommentAuthorDuracell
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2019
     
    Posted By: Andrew Palfreymanhttps://www.quantamagazine.org/computers-evolve-a-new-path-toward-human-intelligence-20191106/

    It seems to work
    Hmmm... So, the plan is to design systems that are smarter than us and more interested in interesting novelty than anything else? What could possibly go wrong? ...

    Being superseded by smarter entities who are driven to seek interesting novelties seems to me to be a somewhat potentially dangerous proposition ...
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    It's a two-edged sword, of course. We do it because we too are driven by curiosity!
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2019
     
    Also the need for food, mates, shelter. What would take precedence, I wonder.
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      CommentAuthorpcstru
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2019
     
    Posted By: Andrew Palfreymanhttps://www.quantamagazine.org/computers-evolve-a-new-path-toward-human-intelligence-20191106/

    It seems to work


    "Biological evolution is also the only system to produce human intelligence"

    That's like saying, "Chemistry is the only system to produce human intelligence". If it is not just wrong, it is utterly useless.

    Example of why it can be said just to be wrong : Human Intelligence is fundamentally predicated on language. A human without language would be judged no more intelligent than (say) a smart dog. Words are not to be found in biology. You can't dissect a baby and find the hidden dictionary.
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    I would say that, firstly, it is our grasp and manipulation of symbols upon which language is fundamentally predicated.
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      CommentAuthorpcstru
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2019
     
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanI would say that, firstly, it is our grasp and manipulation of symbols upon which language is fundamentally predicated.


    What are these symbols then? Can you draw them, speak them, feel them? Are those 'symbols' to be found in the dissection of babies?
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    Plato has "the whiteness of cream" to give you.

    The symbols we use begin life as grounded in Nature. Point and click.
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      CommentAuthorpcstru
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2019
     
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanPlato has "the whiteness of cream" to give you.

    The symbols we use begin life as grounded in Nature. Point and click.


    So they don't actually exist as physical things then? You can't actually draw them, feel them, measure them; only describe them with words to others whom share the common meaning? You won't find them in the bits as you dissect babies to see what makes the Biology?
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    Do symbols exist? - without a doubt.

    Can you actually draw them? - what else is writing?

    Are their meanings shared? - if that were not so, there would be no communication via language.

    As you disect your babies, can you locate the epigenetic chemistry that conveys innate (pre-symbolic) behaviours to that baby?
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      CommentAuthorpcstru
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2019
     
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanDo symbols exist? - without a doubt.

    Can you actually draw them? - what else is writing?

    Ok, so when you said "I would say that, firstly, it is our grasp and manipulation of symbols upon which language is fundamentally predicated. "

    So you mean letters that make up words which make up language are your symbols? You weren't alluding to some symboloy that pre-dates language. So you were essentially agreeing with my statement; that human intelligence is predicated on language.


    As you disect your babies, can you locate the epigenetic chemistry that conveys innate (pre-symbolic) behaviours to that baby?


    Are you aware of any evidence of such a thing?
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    I asked first
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      CommentAuthorpcstru
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2019
     
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanI asked first

    I'm not aware of any observed evidence that shows such a transfer, are you?
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    I think we're basically agreeing. Your model is
    language->intelligence
    and my model is
    symbols->language->intelligence

    An example of a symbol is a word, but there are many others.
    A concept is another type of symbol, even if it has no name. It just needs to be internally identifiable.

    As for epigenetics, nobody has fully cracked the code yet. But clearly it's real.
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      CommentAuthorpcstru
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2019
     
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanI think we're basically agreeing. Your model is
    language->intelligence
    and my model is
    symbols->language->intelligence

    An example of a symbol is a word, but there are many others.
    A concept is another type of symbol, even if it has no name. It just needs to be internally identifiable.

    As for epigenetics, nobody has fully cracked the code yet. But clearly it's real.


    I'm not sure we are. For a start you have now moved to "intelligence" and I was specifically talking about "human intelligence".

    I like the definition of intelligence as the ability to solve a given problem in a given time. On that basis we have animal intelligence - they solve the problem of obtaining food, or building nests or ... well you get the idea. Do they need symbols for that? Language?

    Specifically human intelligence (compared to (say) animal intelligence) is predicated on language; but intelligence itself is just problem solving and animals seem to do that without language so intelligence itself is not predicated on language - just human intelligence.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2019
     
    By that definition the process of evolution is intelligent, and that process is not a living thing.