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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 11th 2014
     
    How will we know?
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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeJul 11th 2014
     
    I will inform you of course.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 11th 2014
     
    OK. Knock loudly. I'm hard to awaken to consciousness.
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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeJul 11th 2014
     
    DM

    With nuclear power this farm could be on the sea, Antarctica or even Mars.

    Indoor farm grows 10,000 heads of lettuce a DAY.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2687674/Now-THATS-power-plant-Indoor-farm-grows-10-000-heads-lettuce-DAY-using-lights-mimic-day-night.html
  1.  
    Well, how do you define "success"? Witness the stromatolites of Australia. They have survived for 3.5 billion years and aren't conscious (at least I don't think they are.)
    Biomass: bacteria and algae
    Numbers of individuals presently extant: ditto

    I think consciousness evolved as a kind of "cheat". If you aren't very well adapted to the niche you're in, then it helps to be conscious so you can figure out how to invade someone else's niche and steal his resources.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2014
     
    Posted By: alsetalokinI think consciousness evolved as a kind of "cheat". If you aren't very well adapted to the niche you're in, then it helps to be conscious so you can figure out how to invade someone else's niche and steal his resources.


    I have been having a similar train of thought. And the strategy is ultimately self-limiting and therefore maladaptive. You can see that in the eternal squabbles with ever improving weaponry that humans engage in.

    Consciousness - which after all isn't really very old in evolutionary terms - may be a failed experiment.
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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2014
     
    Do you think that in your own case?
  2.  
    I have an appendix, too. And people are killed by those, all the time.
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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2014
     
    I have an heart, too. And people are killed by those, all the time.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2014
     
    Posted By: TrimDo you think that in your own case?


    That doesn't make sense.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2014
     
    The appendix serves no purpose and might kill you, so it's probably being slowly bred out. Maybe we're watching consciousness being slowly bred out.
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    Posted By: TrimI have an heart, too. And people are killed by those, all the time.


    The heart is a necessary evil (tm TKStudios). The appendix, not so much.
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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2014 edited
     
    @Angus

    Do yo think that consciousness is a failed experiment in your case?

    Please answer yes or no.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2014
     
    It doesn't make sense, so I can't answer yes or no. But if you need an explanation I will give it to you. I wondered whether consciousness is maladaptive because it might the long run lead to a population crash and extinction. The value of the consciousness experiment relates to the race, not to any individual. I can't have a population crash all by myself.
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      CommentAuthoralsetalokin
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2014 edited
     
    Not any more, perhaps, but surely you know some people who are just too smart to be allowed to reproduce. Or who remove themselves from the gene pool through utter brilliance.
    If we were all zombies, operating strictly on list-lookup-behaviours, that wouldn't happen. When was the last time you heard about a termite, killing itself while testing its latest invention?

    Besides, the "population" is a construct. All the action happens at the level of the individual.
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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2014
     
    You could try though.

    The population may crash from a very high level only obtained because we are conscious.
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      CommentAuthoralsetalokin
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2014 edited
     
    Posted By: TrimYou could try though.

    The population may crash from a very high level only obtained because we are conscious.

    Yes, I think that's Angus his point, and mine too. But I'm trying to make the point that a population crash is "just" a bunch of simultaneous individual crashes.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2014 edited
     
    We are saying the same thing then. The excessively brilliant sometimes exceed the boundaries of what you can do and still stay alive, whereas the stupid merely kill each other in tribal wars, using weapons left for them by the excessively brilliant.

    Whereas the termites just keep on keeping on.
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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2014
     
    Until the 'brilliant' want to destroy them and invent a plague to do so.

    When the sun goes nova the 'brilliant' will 'hopefully be all over the galaxy (or their marsupial descendents).
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2014
     
    The brilliant are utterly dependent on the masses of stupid and will go their way with them when the time comes.