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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2019
     
    I just showed those pix to Mrs A who thought it must be a silo that someone had given fake fins for a lark. She barely believed me when I told her the truth.
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      CommentAuthorsaner
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2019
     
    Posted By: AngusI just showed those pix to Mrs A who thought it must be a silo that someone had given fake fins for a lark. She barely believed me when I told her the truth.



    My buddy has lots of family in Sask. Most are farmers during bugs and heat, welders and pipeliners during freeze up. I bet at least one of them has already started building fins for his silo.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2019
     
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      CommentAuthorsaner
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: Angushttps://youtu.be/a2cEPSnF1qY


    Facepalm. How can anyone in a farm environment not understand the imminent danger of dust and ignition source?


    https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-starship-mark-1-explosion-overpressure-event-boca-chica-texas-2019-11

    Poorly written but fun for 'count the errors'.


    I liked this quote too;

    "The purpose of today's test was to pressurize systems to the max, so the outcome was not completely unexpected," a SpaceX representative told The Verge.
    • CommentAuthorloreman
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2019
     
    It’s misdirection, I tell you! The real one’s in a big warehouse near Shenzhen.
    • CommentAuthorkorkskrew
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2019
     
    Posted By: alsetalokinYep, the video was notable for the absence of scurrying doozers. An abundance of caution prevailed. But did they close the roads? I thought the thing blew up before the scheduled road closures. I hope the camera up on the cherry-picker was a high frame-rate special.

    All that crumpled sheet metal, elongated rivet holes, cracked welds, distorted framework. The whole shebang (no pun intended) will have to be scrapped, I imagine. Not a serious setback? Well, at least the pad is relatively intact. They still have some even more spectacular failures awaiting them up ahead in the timeline.
    The roads are always closed for any pressure testing, engine testing, or fueling.

    Or launches of course.
    • CommentAuthorkorkskrew
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: sanerI just looked at the photos fromhttps://www.tmahlmann.com/photos/Rockets/SpaceX/Starship/that I posted last time I dropped by. If the same welders did the tanks as did the skin, not surprised it failed.

    Anyone have any good pictures of the tank? TIA.

    I did find this;
    https://lifeboat.com/blog.images/spacexs-orbital-starship-prototype-construction-progress-detailed-in-new-photos2.jpg
    Looks like the tank is welded to the outer skin maybe? Very odd. The thermal induced stresses and distortions on this thing are going to rip it to shreds.


    Also, where is the cargo supposed to be secured in this thing? How is it loaded and deployed?
    The outside skin is the wall of the fuel tank. 301 stainless steel becomes stronger at cryogenic temperatures, which is why they are using it.

    The cargo section is very large and has fins of it's own to help with re-entry stabilization. Pictures of the fully assembled vehicle are widely available. Do a Google image search for SpaceX MK1 and you'll find plenty of pics of the section that blew up, the cargo section and the fully assembled vehicle
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2019
     
    Posted By: korkskrewThe outside skin is the wall of the fuel tank


    No insulation?
  1.  
    @korkscrew:
    There's a lot of anti-Musk sentiment here, so thanks for the return to reason.

    My chief doubt about the success of the project is probably in regards to the Raptor engines. The whole endeavour stands or falls based on their success, which is as yet largely unproven in actual service. I get the impression that there may be some problems in the design - but it's just a hunch, and of course I hope it's unfounded. Of note is the considerable evolution which the Merlin class engine underwent to date. Raptor is more complex and so we can expect more of the same.
  2.  
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanI get the impression that there may be some problems in the design



    I see you have not lost your British flair for understatement.
  3.  
    Nor yours for drastic misinterpretation
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      CommentAuthorsaner
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2019
     
    Posted By: AngusNo insulation?


    Is a ~300c temperature differential significant enough to worry about? Really?



    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanThere's a lot of anti-Musk


    Guilty. I don't like Musk.

    But I don't have anything against Space-X or any other Musk enterprise in general. Specifically, odd design and some rather strange fabrication and procedures do not inspire my confidence. I'm no rocket scientist but I have designed some very large metal structures, including fuel tanks, and I am baffled by what I have seen.
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      CommentAuthorAngus
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2019
     
    Posted By: sanerIs a ~300c temperature differential significant enough to worry about? Really?


    Well, even in Saskatoon they might be taken aback at a metal wall with Zero insulation.
    • CommentAuthorkorkskrew
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2019
     
    Posted By: Angus
    Posted By: korkskrewThe outside skin is the wall of the fuel tank


    No insulation?
    Correct.
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      CommentAuthorgoatcheez
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2019
     
  4.  
    Plants don't build interstellar radios
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCzpYxedIe0
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      CommentAuthorsaner
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: Angus
    Posted By: sanerIs a ~300c temperature differential significant enough to worry about? Really?


    Well, even in Saskatoon they might be taken aback at a metal wall with Zero insulation.


    Indeed.

    So many very odd engineering decisions on this thing. One,

    I have had 3/4" plate rolled into 15' radius sections, 10' tall for a project. Any deep water shipyard could roll that silo of his in 4-8 rings or halves instead of hundreds of individual plates (eta: that had to be rolled anyway). Several million inches of weld saved. Significantly less distortion and fail points.

    But if the fuel tank/ship body is single skin, I'm wasting my time on trivialities.

    edit : radius not dia.
  5.  
    This is how the Mk.2 is constructed.

    But you'd be a fool to invest in production machinery before you'd settled on a viable design.
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      CommentAuthorsaner
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: Andrew PalfreymanThis is how the Mk.2 is constructed.

    But you'd be a fool to invest in production machinery before you'd settled on a viable design.


    I didn't have to invest in anything. I had the purchaser send my drawings to the steel supplier with the specifications. Arrived rolled to spec.

    No need to buy the equipment.

    eta: Will the MK2 fuel tank be insulated too?
  6.  
    Go look at the Mk2 pix. They are legion.