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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeOct 14th 2009
     
    Good point. Suns.
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    >We've been taming, harnessing, controlling all kinds of animals for our own purposes for millions of years

    Abusing is the word for the large part.
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    What's the power source, a micro-battery? A nano-generator powered by bug motion? Remote laser or RF power beamed to the insect? Could a microscopic Orbo be used instead?
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    Posted By: Knuckles OToole>We've been taming, harnessing, controlling all kinds of animals for our own purposes for millions of years

    Abusing is the word for the large part.


    True enough, but the unfortunate truth is that mankind is a lot better off for it! Sometimes it can morally justified, sometimes it can't. In this case, I'm saying it's got morally dubious origins (military), but could have other important payoffs for humanity. I think I can take the cyborging of a few unfortunate bugs for that.
  4.  
    Posted By: firstmanonthesun
    Posted By: Knuckles OToole>We've been taming, harnessing, controlling all kinds of animals for our own purposes for millions of years

    Abusing is the word for the large part.


    True enough, but the unfortunate truth is that mankind is a lot better off for it! Sometimes it can morally justified, sometimes it can't. In this case, I'm saying it's got morally dubious origins (military), but could have other important payoffs for humanity. I think I can take the cyborging of a few unfortunate bugs for that.


    I think there is a higher consciousness that is being squandered. The use of animals to do menial labor creates a mindset of domination that is morally justified in the Bible: man has dominion over animals. This is not moral justification it is hubris. Man's dominion expanded to included dominion over other men in slavery and other forms of tyrannical repression. We abuse animals to extinction. We create untold misery that we are not capable of being conscious of. We have no humility in the face of life. Any life, man or beast.

    I am all in favor of robotics to do repetitive tasks and unburden both man and beast in tasks that are strenuous and dangerous. I am not in favor of cyborgs. This transorganic dream is really a nightmare. Only man's hubris gives him the right to show such wholesale disrespect for other living creatures and that mindset has no boundaries. Nothing is sacred and that is the deepest flaw in the human condition.

    Only hubris gives us the illusion of super intelligence when in fact we are not that smart. I have similar thoughts on the dangerous allure of genetic engineering. We are not omniscient enough to play Supreme Beings. We fix one thing and break two others. The real moral to our hubris is the story of Icarus.
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    Do you think Man has a unique obligation to not take advantage of other species? The development of consciousness and society has put us in a position where we have the luxury of making such moral decisions, and we are certainly unique in our ability to feel guilty and self-flagellate over such decisions.

    The killer whale does not make a moral decision when it kills a seal, and the seal does not make a moral decision when it kills a penguin, and the penguin does not make a moral decision when it kills a fish. It's not just about killing either - there are instances in the animal kingdom of one species 'farming' another species, e.g. ants farming aphids for honeydew.

    Of course we should take a more responsible attitude, given our position at the top of the consciousness tree, but why shouldn't we have dominion over nature? I'd certainly rather we had dominion over nature than let nature have dominion over us. That's one of the things that makes us human.
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    Posted By: firstmanonthesunDo you think Man has a unique obligation to not take advantage of other species? The development of consciousness and society has put us in a position where we have the luxury of making such moral decisions, and we are certainly unique in our ability to feel guilty and self-flagellate over such decisions.


    There is no morality in taking the path of egregious disrespect. It can be rationalized which is what humans do best. The Nazis rationalized the final solution, Americans rationalized the decimation of the native Indians, the use of slavery is rationalized, so the abuse of animals is so much lower on the list of morality.


    The killer whale does not make a moral decision when it kills a seal, and the seal does not make a moral decision when it kills a penguin, and the penguin does not make a moral decision when it kills a fish. It's not just about killing either - there are instances in the animal kingdom of one species 'farming' another species, e.g. ants farming aphids for honeydew.


    What animals do is instinctive. What we do is rationalize. Big difference because one is conscious and one is not. The benign use of animals is respectful for it usually means we live in harmony with the animals and do cooperative acts for mutual survival.


    Of course we should take a more responsible attitude, given our position at the top of the consciousness tree, but why shouldn't we have dominion over nature? I'd certainly rather we had dominion over nature than let nature have dominion over us. That's one of the things that makes us human.


    It is not about dominion it is about harmonious co-existence. The human race should adopt the Hippocratic oath in all endeavors: Do no harm.
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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeOct 14th 2009
     
    Isn't this thread in the wrong category now? Philosophy perhaps?
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      CommentAuthorGrimer
    • CommentTimeOct 14th 2009
     
    I think we should use it on humans who want to slim. Reach for another donut and your hand is paralysed.
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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeOct 14th 2009
     
    I wouldn't need hands for doughnuts I would just suck em up with my mouth.
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    Posted By: TrimI wouldn't need hands for doughnuts I would just suck em up with my mouth.


    How very beetle-like of you.
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      CommentAuthorTrim
    • CommentTimeOct 14th 2009
     
    Doh!